Athlete to Triathlete (Part Two): Ten Stories from Ten Sports

TriDot Podcast Episode 268

Athlete to Triathlete (Part Two): Ten Stories from Ten Sports

Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together.

Vanessa Ronksley: Welcome to the TriDot podcast, friends. A few weeks ago Andrew posted in our social communities asking people what sports they participated in that helped or perhaps hindered their journey to becoming a triathlete. Andrew was hoping to get 10 or maybe 12 responses and he ended up with over 30 of them. So today we will be doing part two of athlete to triathlete. Joining me for this episode is Coach Joanna Nami. Joanna is better known as Coach JoJo and has been coaching athletes with TriDot since 2012. She is a co-founder of Hissyfit Racing, a member of the Betty Design Elite squad and has double digit IRONMAN finishes on her accomplished triathlon resume. She is also a three time IRONMAN World Championship finisher. Jo, welcome back to the show.

Joanna Nami: Thanks for having me Vanessa. I'm super excited to be here. I think this is going to be very entertaining.

Vanessa Ronksley: I hope so. I really hope that it will be entertaining and here I am. I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm and grateful as always to be hosting the show. I often say to myself, a day that includes recording a podcast is always a great day. Especially when I'm here with Coach JoJo. As always, we'll roll through the warmup questions, settle in for our main set conversation and then wind things down with our cool down. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Announcer: Time to warm up. Let's get moving.

Vanessa Ronksley: Medically speaking, a true bonk is the moment in a race or a workout where your body shuts down and will not let you continue moving forward. Hopefully most of us have never gotten to that point but we may have had moments where we got too close for comfort. Today's warmup question: what is the closest you have ever come to bonking in a workout or race? Joanna, you are always full of good stories, so let's hear if you've ever bonked or have come close to bonking.

Joanna Nami: Oh, most definitely. I would say that happens quite often. I think it's with the amount of training that we do day in and day out, it's very tricky to stay up with daily fueling of calories we need just for living versus the amount of training we put in. I think I was training for the last Kona that I did, riding by myself, doing a hundred miler, and just started feeling really bad. Made it back to an area or a clubhouse that has bathroom and water fountain. But it was a point of stripping off the bike jersey, sitting on the ground, pouring water over my head. And I started to have those, like, you don't know if it's really like panicky or are you going to faint. And I started looking around for people because if you're like gonna go down, you want to tell somebody. But I think being really smart about in those situations, not panicking because it's funny how quickly you can recover, you know, by bringing down your core body temperature, taking in some sugar, taking in some salt, resting for a few minutes, deep breathing, you know, I was able to get back up, get on the bike and make it 14 miles home. So, you know, bonking is serious and there's some cases where there is no recovery and you need medical attention. But I remember Cozumel. I did also where I started the run and thought, there is not going to be any running here. I can barely walk. And it's real funny how you can turn that around and with fueling and in a little, you know, self talk, some positivity and end up running the whole thing, you know. So it is, it is serious, but it's really based on fueling, you know, kind of pumping yourself up mentally. Absolutely.

Vanessa Ronksley: My story goes kind of along the lines of that as well. Mine doesn't really classify as a workout, but I did a lot of bike commuting when I was a teacher and we happened to live at the top of a two and a half kilometer hill. And so on my way home from work one day, like after, you know, those long, hard days, I didn't come close to bonking. I actually did bonk. And unfortunately it was at the bottom of the hill. And like you said, it's like this really weird feeling. Like you get lightheaded, you're not sure, like your vision goes a little bit blurry, and then you just can't, you just can't go forward and you all know the symptoms. But I ended up pulling off the road and onto some grass and I sat next to this chain link fence and I was rummaging around in my backpack and I found like this really old package, like a little baggie that had some roasted edamame beans in it, had some craisins in it, and I was like, I'm just gonna eat these and see how I feel. And a couple of motorists actually stopped their vehicles to ask if I was okay because I must have looked so, so horrible next to this fence. And I was like, I'll be okay. I just need a few minutes. And you're right. Like, you just, you have to have that little bit of a reset. And once you get that, the calories in the energy eventually kicked in and I had enough energy to get back up the hill. But, man, that is one of the worst feelings.

Joanna Nami: And it's so funny because I'll laugh at myself, at the self talk, like I'm talking to one of my kids, and I'll be like, you're okay, you're okay. You're a big girl. You can do this. I catch myself giggling, but it's like, it works, you know?

Vanessa Ronksley: Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. You have to have that self talk. And I think what you said earlier about being like, calm yourself down and try not to panic because as soon as you get that panic, it kind of exacerbates all of the feelings and what you're going through. So if you can just, like, take some deep breaths and calm down, you'll get back to it. Like, you will. You just have to ride it out. I cannot wait to hear what y'all have to say about your bonking stories or close to bonking stories. Make sure you check out the post that will be up in the Facebook page and in the community hub. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. On to the main set.

Main Set

Announcer: Going in 3, 2, 1.

Vanessa Ronksley: We've spoken to sports scientist Andy Blow during several episodes of the podcast to help you nail down your hydration and fueling strategy for training and racing. The big takeaway from those episodes with Andy is that there simply isn't a one size fits all approach to race nutrition. And that's why the team at Precision Fuel and Hydration have developed the Fuel Planner. Head over to precisionfuelandhydration.com to take the Fuel Planner and get your free personalized fuel and hydration strategy. The plan provides guidelines for how much carbohydrate, sodium and fluid you should be aiming to consume so that you know your numbers for your next race. You can then hit those numbers by using the Precision Fuel and hydration product range, which is designed to make it easier for you to keep track of your intake during racing. As the carb and sodium content per serving is right there on the front of the packaging. While at the ambassador camp in St. George, I was blown away by the precision fuel and hydration team. Having a sweat test was an integral part of my nutrition strategy for training and racing. And I have to say that my favorite treat is the PF32 because the mint flavor is next level. As a TriDot listener, you can use the code TRIDOT24 to get 10% off your first order of electrolytes and fueling products.

Vanessa Ronksley: I can't think of a better partner to have sitting here next to me for this super fun episode. Coach Joe and I will be listening to sound bites submitted by athletes from our community. The athletes are reflecting on their journey to becoming a triathlete and how the sport they did previously has enhanced their experience. I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say, JoJo, about each of these journeys that we will be listening to.

Joanna Nami: Yeah, Vanessa, I think it's going to be awesome. I love hearing our TriDot athletes input and that, you know, everybody has their own personal stories of being athletes when they were younger. And, you know, one of my things I often talk about with my athletes or athletes that interview me to coach is that we all or most of us were athletes of some sort growing up and that you really, in a sense, lose yourself as you become a parent, as you marry, become a parent or become an adult and work trying to balance everything. And it's such a cool feeling to get some of that, you know, that, that I found myself back when you, when you start triathlon. And I think that's why it's so attractive to people and it's so addictive because you feel young again and you feel like yourself. So it's going to be really fun to hear about what sports people participated in and how they can kind of relate that to triathlon.

Vanessa Ronksley: I absolutely love what you just said because that is exactly how I felt when I joined the sport of triathlon. Like coming from a background that did not include any individual sport, it was really, it was something that I was so driven to do because I was only relying on myself as opposed to relying on a team or something else. So, yeah, we're about to kick off this episode and I know, Joe, this is something that's very close to your heart. This first clip here, our first audio clip is from Sandy Larson, who is one of our ambassadors from Las Vegas.

Sandy Larson: Hi, my name is Sandy Larson. I'm from Las Vegas, Nevada. Here's a cheer that'll turn you on because TriDotters are number one. Yes. I had a background in cheerleading and gymnastics and I do feel that that sport has given me not only mental strength, that it's also given me the ability to overcome fear and regain that determination after a setback or an injury. Definitely have flexibility. I probably owe that mostly to the sport. I could clip in, get on a TT bike and right away take off with balance and also able to grab a bottle at the back and any type of nutrition and handle, you know, riding at the same time. It's always come easy for me. Fear, probably. Fear is one I'm able to overcome easily. Only because some of your gymnastics can be at a high level. Right. So the same thing when you get on a bike and you descend, I've always descending is. I'm really pretty fast. Not as fast going up, I will tell you that. But I am really fast going down. And I owe it to just my ability growing up as a cheerleader and gymnastics. Probably the thing I would say that that sport did not help me with is poise and stiffness. You know, swimming, I never swam. I just started swimming, what, eight years ago. And my coach would always get on me about, you're so stiff, Sandy. Bend your elbow, you know, because that's how it is in cheerleading. You're constantly poised and trying to make sure that those positions are exact. I'm definitely a big cheerleader too. When I get on the course. Las Vegas Tri Club knows me for this. I get out there, I am screaming, you got this. But that's, that's the sport that I did and grateful that it did give me what I have today to complete two IRONMANs. I have six half IRONMANs. That's what I contribute my sport to.

Vanessa Ronksley: Well, wow, there is a lot to unpack there from Sandy. Thank you so much for submitting that. One of the things that stuck out to me was that ability to overcome fear. And that's something that is so valuable, such an important skill from both gymnastics and from cheerleading. If you're trying to do something on an apparatus like a balance beam and you're doing like a backflip, like you have to do that for the first time and that's terrifying. So having the ability to know that you're going to attempt this and that it might not work out the first time and that there's going to be supports there to help you get over that, I think that fear and having that skill to overcome the fear is very, very important, especially in triathlon, like she said, for descending hills, if that's something that you're afraid of. But for a lot of people, that fear is the swim. The first thing, the first part of your day in a race is the swim. And so you have to be able to overcome that fear regardless of what it is. Whether it's, you know, having too many people near you in the swim or the waves that might be present for the conditions of that day. Like there are a lot of things to be afraid of, the unknown of what's going to happen in your race. That's terrifying for a lot of people because we do, as triathletes, like to have everything set in place and we like to have plans for everything. And sometimes things don't go according to plan and that can be fearful and create a little bit of anxiety. So having that built into your skill set is really, really valuable.

Joanna Nami: I loved everything that Sandy said. She does have amazing enthusiasm and you can kind of tell from her spirit that she probably cheered. There's something we can see amongst each other. There's a couple other things that, when I was thinking about this is that, you know, it's been really special. Even though triathlon is an individual sport, there's a real camaraderie and you know, just a real dependence on your teammates. In cheerleading, you know, I had co-ed squad in high school and in college and you know, it's like a family. You do practice two times a day more than the football team did. And so, you know, there is such a bond that you form and I think we're seeing that. That's what's kept me in triathlon for so long is the teammates, the sisterhoods through Betty Designs and TriDot and all of Hissyfit that it's really the relationships and cheerleading is very much the same way. All the things that she touched on, when I think about the physicality of cheerleading and triathlon is flexibility, which really makes you stay in triathlon for the long haul. All of that that I did younger was great for flexibility and mobility. The knees aren't as happy about me jumping on concrete for 12 years, but flexibility, mobility, you have a leg up literally on other triathletes and balance, that is something, you know, it's so important when it comes to body position in the water and run posture and things that you know, we constantly talk about with our athletes is improving your balance, especially as we get older. Balance was essential as a cheerleader and stunting and being, you know, how far up in the air and doing crazy pyramids and all of these things, you know, as far as balance.

Vanessa Ronksley: I think most people fall into that category when we have a little bit less faith in ourselves than other people do have in us. But man, if you were on the team that was supposed to save me from some crazy risky situation, I think I'd want you to be the team leader, that's for sure. I'm just curious, what elevation is considered to be high altitude?

Vanessa Ronksley: I totally agree with you in terms of triathlon being an individual sport but also being a part of a larger team. And I think that's what's kept me in the sport as well. I really do feel like you're part of a family. So I appreciate that so much that Sandy brought that up and you as well, Joe. This next clip is a sport that I am not too familiar with and I can't wait to hear what this athlete has to say about the similarities between race car driving and triathlon.

Nick Malone: Hi there, my name is Nick Malone, I'm from Fate, Texas and before I got into triathlon I was actually a race car driver. Specifically I drove Formula Mazda. If you want a visual, just think Formula One or IndyCar. It was an open wheeled winged race cars, pretty fun. I never did it professionally but I did it for several years as a hobby, as a sport. And really quick how I got from that into triathlon was actually by, I guess a happenstance. I had some back pain and a friend recommended me to a chiropractor who as we were talking about auto racing, he had mentioned something about a triathlon that he was interested in getting into. I said oh, I've never heard of a triathlon, I should look it up. And when I did I thought that would be great for building up some endurance for auto racing. So in the gym I would start at least twice a week. I ended up doing a sprint triathlon. I'd do the swim, go get on the exercise bike and then a treadmill. Did that at least twice a week. And it did wonders for my auto racing, built up quite a bit of endurance. Eventually I decided that you know, I should do an actual triathlon. Then the rest is history. You know, I've done sprints and Olympics. IRONMAN, six IRONMANs later and really enjoying it. Some of the things I got from that were able to translate well from auto racing into triathlon. So for one, obviously the endurance part, if you decide you want to do an IRONMAN or even really even a sprint, you need a certain endurance. It certainly helps. And being prepared, getting your body in shape. The same with taking care of equipment. With a race car, you've got to look after things, they break or you got to service certain items. A bike or even just your running shoes, they wear out. Right. And you have to pay attention to your equipment if you want to perform well. And even just staying healthy, you know, having the right shoes can help keep your feet right. But yeah, so going from auto racing to triathlon, sure, it was a bit of a different type of sport, but thankfully, there were several things that really translated well. Another key part was the type of people involved. So in the auto racing world, I did club racing sports, and I raced all over the country, even Indianapolis. But the type of people I came across came from all sorts of walks of life. And it was really comforting to see that, you know, there's no specific type of person that does it. It's just anybody who's interested and they're all welcomed. And when I got to triathlon, it just seemed like that was amplified by a ton. I did my first triathlon, and I couldn't believe the different types of people I saw in there. Old and young and small and big and everything in between. And it just really showed that, wow, you know, doesn't matter where you come from, this is a sport where everybody's welcome and we're all here to help each other out. And, you know, it was actually the same in the auto racing world, but I feel like that was even more amplified here in triathlon. I've really been enjoying that.

Vanessa Ronksley: That was a fabulous clip. Thank you so much to Nick Malone for sending that one in. Something that really resonated with me, that has been talked about a lot on this podcast is taking care of your equipment. And I think John Mayfield was probably one of the first people to say a clean bike is a fast bike. And so making sure that you're taking care of your bike is super important. But I was also thinking as Nick was talking, like, triathlon is a really expensive hobby, and I thought it was always one of the most expensive hobbies. But now I'm like, hmm, maybe taking care of a vehicle is a little bit more expensive than a bike itself. So I appreciate his insight on taking care of equipment, but the thing that was my favorite part of his story there was the type of people that are welcome in the sport of triathlon. This is something that gets me right at the core. It truly is a sport for everyone, and the number of people that get into the sport from whatever background they come from and overcome some kind of, you know, an obstacle or some hardship that they've had, and they manifest this healing process through triathlon. I think that's why it attracts so many different people. And we are triathletes. We're all out there to help everyone out and to make them feel like they're accomplishing something great. Because anyone who can get to the start line of a race has put in effort and they've committed themselves and they've dedicated their time to doing this. And it is such a wonderful community to be a part of. And I love that that was something that Nick noticed in the race car driving, and then it's also present in triathlon. I love that.

Joanna Nami: Yeah, I really enjoyed his answer to that. And I was thinking about the parallels of driving the race car and our crazy fast, light tri bikes. And I was thinking about reaction time, you know, because as they're driving, you know, they're making quick decisions on strategy, like shifting gears strategically in the car versus how we do it on the bike. I mean, there is strategy to everything that we're doing. And when we see a pothole or something in the road, your reaction time has to be perfect, you know, to avoid roadkill or, you know, for him to avoid other cars, you know, it is very parallel when you look at it like that.

Vanessa Ronksley: The next sport that we're going to be moving to is powerlifting. And let's hear from one of our amazing TriDot coaches who always has something insightful to say. I love listening to her speak. Here is April Spilde, talking about her journey from powerlifting to triathlon.

April Spilde: Hey, everyone. Coach April here from Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I wanted to share with you my journey in competitive powerlifting and how that translates into my performance now as a triathlete. First, let's talk about what carried over and really helped. I learned discipline, consistency. I learned how to show up day in and day out for myself, even when I didn't feel like it. And there were two really specific laws of training that applied both in triathlon and in powerlifting. First is the law of progressive overload, where you gradually increase the demands on your body. That was central to both sports. In powerlifting, it's all about adding weight to the bar. And in triathlon, it's about extending those bike rides, running farther and swimming longer. The second was specificity. I learned how to break up my season into different phases, just like in triathlon with our development phase into race specific, I learned how to peak for my powerlifting performances. Some things that didn't carry over were the bulk that I gained from lifting heavy. And being too muscle bound can slow you down, as most know. So I had to focus on slimming down while maintaining functional strength as I transitioned to triathlon training. As for specific moments where lessons from powerlifting come into play, I remember in one of my hardest triathlon races, I hit a point of absolute exhaustion, but I recalled what it was like being on a powerlifting platform and being able to summon the demand to finish strong that really does carry over in any type of sport. The ability to not give up when things get tough. And in the end, while powerlifting and triathlon are different, they both rely on hard work, discipline, and a willingness to push past discomfort. So I did evolve my training to meet those specific challenges of the sport. But the mindset needed to finish, that's universal.

Joanna Nami: Well, I don't have much of a history with powerlifting. That's not my physique. I do lift. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I do lift, but it's definitely not powerlifting. But I was thinking about what she was saying. There's got to be an extreme mental element to powerlifting and the same kind of fear of failure to perform in front of people like we perform in, you know, our first IRONMAN, your fear of embarrassment or failing and an extreme belief in yourself that you can do this because they're both very, very difficult at that level. And you have to have that belief in yourself to be successful. The other thing I was thinking about, I'm gonna use completely the wrong terms because I don't know any powerlifting terms. But like, when they do, you're gonna, y'all are gonna laugh or correct me, but like a clean and jerk. When they throw up, like, you know, 500 pounds, it reminded me of how like in TriDot, we do these workouts like a 30/30 on the bike, or we do like MAV shuttles, where it's an intense, tiny interval. You have to just give it all you have in that moment. And so I think there are parallels when you're thinking about, you know, some of the physicality of doing both sports. And then, you know, I was thinking about, I really focus on this with my athletes is I can imagine the protein intake that it requires of someone who's a power lifter. I mean, that must be what all they focus on and think about was, you know, getting 100, 150 grams of protein in per day. And that's become far more important as we work with athletes, especially when I'm working with females over 40 now, is, you know, some of my guys that I train, rarely are we getting enough protein in. And so I was thinking we probably could learn something from powerlifters and how they manage their daily diet and, you know, recovering after these intense sessions that test their muscles and muscle recovery and how many good carbs and good protein we are getting in post workout.

Vanessa Ronksley: I 100% agree with you on the amount of protein that these athletes must take in because they're constantly breaking down muscle and needing to repair. And if you don't put that into your body, then that recovery is not going to happen. I remember when I was in my first phase of strength training, I was eating so much protein, it was like, it was just nasty. It was like you would have to eat eight egg whites in one serving. And it was like you're legitimately removing the yolk or you're buying those little cartons of egg whites. And that was just, that was like one meal of six. And it was just this massive quantity of food. And I can say, just like April had mentioned, like, you put on a lot of mass and you get quite bulky. I think the thing that resonated with me the most with what April said was definitely that the ability to push past discomfort. And I think that this comes from a physical standpoint in addition to the mental standpoint. Because when you see those powerlifters, like, I love watching the Olympics, and when you see those powerlifters getting up there and they're attempting to lift a weight that they have never lifted before, or maybe one that they've only lifted once or twice in their career. They have to have this monumental belief in themselves. And at that point, I would imagine that when they're about to do their move and they're about to lift that weight, it's probably 95% mental ability and overcoming that fear and pushing past that mental discomfort and the physical discomfort, because everything has to line up perfectly in that moment for you to be able to articulate those physical movements to allow for a perfect lift. That is definitely something that allows an athlete to push forward in the sport of triathlon as well.

Vanessa Ronksley: This next ambassador actually started her athletic career in a sport that includes not three sports, but five sports. Let's hear what Meredith Burney has to say about modern pentathlon and how it influenced her life as a triathlete.

Meredith Burney: Hi, this is coach Meredith Burney from Birmingham, Alabama. I competed in the sport of modern pentathlon before becoming a triathlete. Modern pentathlon consists of five sports: running, swimming, shooting, fencing and horseback riding. And at the time I was training and racing, it was only an Olympic sport for men. At the age of 15, this was back in 1985, I was living at the Olympic Training center and hoping that I would be able to compete in the 1988 or '92 games. Unfortunately for me, the first Olympic women's modern pentathlon didn't take place until the 2000 Sydney Games, which was after I had retired. But three things in particular that really helped me in the transition from modern pentathlon to triathlon were understanding that I didn't have to be the best in any one sport, but that I needed to be good or at least decent at all sports. My strongest event was and always has been the swim. But an interesting result of being exposed to and practicing five sports was that I became a good shooter. I had to learn how to shoot and fence, and later in life, I became a proficient enough shooter to qualify for the US national biathlon team. That learning and growing in a new sport really helped my mindset. When I started cycling for triathlon, I believed that I could get better. And because of that, I wasn't afraid to try or really be scared about sucking at the beginning. Second one. Competing in the horseback riding portion of modern pentathlon is literally a gamble. The mounts or horses are randomly assigned only 20 minutes prior to your competition. So you never know what kind of animal that you'll get. And it's supposed to help you fly around the ring jumping fences that are between 4 and 5 feet high. The uncertainty of this portion of modern pentathlon helped me learn at a really early age that there are some things in sport that you just can't control. Over the years, I've worked with my athletes to embrace controlling the controllables and to not worry about circumstances that they have no domain over. Prepare for contingencies, absolutely, but don't dwell on seemingly negative aspects. If the swim gets canceled due to a hurricane. Hello, IRONMAN, Chattanooga. Get over it. Compete with what you have and make the best of it. Finally, at the fencing event for modern pentathlon, the national championships, I had to duel every single competitor, male and female, which included the men from the 1984 Olympic USA silver medal team. Going head to head with these athletes at the age of 15 in a one touch bout was intimidating. I've definitely used that specific experience to help me in my triathlon training and racing. The confidence that I could go up against anyone one on one and potentially win was a huge lesson. So the three things that really helped me from modern pentathlon transferred into triathlon were the belief that I could improve in a sport that I was weaker in, understanding that I can't control everything, and having the peace to approach even a David and Goliath situation with confidence. I love modern pentathlon and I really love triathlon.

Vanessa Ronksley: Oh, Meredith, thank you so much for putting that clip in. That was great. I think that the thing that is really, really important that she drew on from her modern pentathlon career prior to triathlon is that there are things that you just cannot control and that you cannot focus on those things. That is one of the most important things that you can tell an athlete prior to their race because they're going to be looking at the weather weeks out in advance and trying to figure out, you know, all the little details to make sure that they're prepared for a specific type of swim or even what they might need on the bike or the run. But you have to, like she said, you have to be prepared for those instances, but you cannot invest yourself and your mindset into what you want to have happen because it might not happen. And then you just have to, like she said, you just have to get over it and move forward.

Joanna Nami: Yeah, I can imagine when Meredith was talking, as far as pentathlon and triathlon, it seems that scheduling in your training schedule could seem overwhelming when you're trying to balance multiple sports and not neglecting one discipline over another, giving enough time to each of them and you only have a certain amount of time in a week. Now she was doing five sports, so I can't even imagine. That would be a lot harder. But I loved when she talked about racing against men because as much as I like an all female event, which has tons of camaraderie and fun, racing against men feels real good when you're on that bike and you know that, you know, you'll see guys with the shirt that says I got chicked, you know, he got passed. And that just reminded me of those experiences.

Vanessa Ronksley: Our next ambassador, who came from a different sporting background, is Jonathan Mejia. He's going to tell us what the similarities are between wrestling and triathlon.

Jonathan Mejia: Hey, everyone, this is TriDot ambassador Jonathan Mejia. And I wanted to share with you how wrestling in high school helped me become a triathlete. So the first and easy item is, you know, obviously we wear singlets in wrestling. So I was used to wearing tight clothing that made you look cool. And so that helped translate into being a triathlete because we wear tight clothing that makes us look cool. But then also it helped me with just understanding your mindset in triathlon and how, yeah, maybe you have a down period or maybe you may be down a point, right? But it's ultimately, you have multiple legs in a race, just like you have multiple periods in a match. And it's thinking about the overall match and just not one specific period. Where it didn't help was, you know, obviously there's no bikes and no swimming involved with wrestling. So those are things that I had to learn. But even then, there's still a lot of lessons that I was able to take as a wrestler into triathlon.

Joanna Nami: I love that from Jonathan, of course. I mean, my first thought, I mean, he nailed it. I was like, it's those sexy outfits. I mean, oh, come on. I mean. And the crazy thing is, at least for triathlon, it's gotten better. I mean, when I started this, like, 20 years ago, bad, bad, bad. Yeah. And I think those singlets that they wear in wrestling, I'm like, not good. Not a good look. But the thing I was thinking about also was, and he touched on this, was, you know, it's quick reaction time. When you see those matches, there is so much strategy and quick decision making that they're doing, and it's very much similar. Even though IRONMAN or half IRONMAN, whatever distance is, is a very long event, there is a lot of strategy and decision making. You know, we're not trying to win that race in the first five minutes of a marathon. That's when we think we're dying, you know, so we have to be very strategic about what we do on the bike and on the swim, as well as to set ourselves up for an awesome marathon. So that was very similar when I was thinking about a wrestling match and a triathlon race.

Vanessa Ronksley: I am excited to hear this next one. TriDot ambassador Heather Hodges comes from a marching band background. Let's hear what she has to say about how this activity shaped her as a triathlete.

Heather Hodges: Hi, this is Heather Hodges from Dublin, Pennsylvania. Before I was a triathlete, I was a huge band nerd, and I performed with a drum and bugle corps for two summers. This experience is like professional marching band. You wake up, you practice all day, you eat your meals off of a truck, you sleep on gym floors or on a bus, and you tour around the country for a whole entire summer without going home. The rigor of drum corps really prepared me for being a triathlete. Keeping to a schedule, being accountable, doing your best, even when you really didn't feel like it, has really bridged the gap between being a triathlete and my previous experience with drum corps. Certain things, though, didn't bridge so well, such as in drum corps, you're basically told what to do, where to go, and then you're responsible for that. In triathlon, you don't really have that much direction, especially with training. That's why I really latched onto TriDot, because it told me exactly what I should be doing. I didn't have to think about it. I just did it. Long days are another thing that transition well between drum corps and triathlon. Drum corps days in the beginning of the summer, when you're learning your show, you're learning basics, getting used to the group generally average between 10 to 12 hours of rehearsal every day. There's a block in the morning, a block in the afternoon, block at night. So putting in those long hours on your feet, just going and doing the best you can, really has transitioned into long training days in triathlon land. There were quite a few moments in my triathlon journey, especially starting out, when I thought racing was really hard. And I would look back and say, I did drum corps. That was the hardest two summers of my life. And I made it through that. So I can definitely do this. I am prepared for it. And really digging down deep and finding that mental fortitude has helped a ton. Especially when I did my first half IRONMAN. There were some really dark times, but I feel like the fortitude that I've built throughout my life and band activities, drum corps, that has all allowed me to really push through those really dark times and come out on the other side, being successful.

Joanna Nami: I think all of that was really good from Heather, a couple of things she touched on. But, you know, of course it comes to mind as far as multitasking. I mean, if I had to play a trombone and march and remember where you're going. They're like doing a dance routine. Some of them are kind of dancing, I believe. I mean, that seems so difficult. And, you know, they do it perfectly, especially as far as form. It's like running, you know, paralleling running and marching is very similar to me, but the multitasking is, I was thinking about swimming itself, because that is the number one response I get from people when I'm working with them in the water is, it's so hard for me to remember to kick and do a tiny kick, high elbow, keep my head down, breathe. You know, all of these things that you're trying to do when you're trying to swim an efficient freestyle stroke, they're doing, they're multitasking. They're doing all of these things during a band performance. And it's pretty remarkable. And again, I'm just gonna say it. The suits, I mean, they have got to be sweating insane. And I know they are because, like, I've driven past the high school. She was talking about practicing all day. I have watched the football team will practice, you know, two hours, and they're off the field. Those poor band kids are on the parking lot of the high school in uniform, like, for six hours. You know, they've got to have endurance levels. And I keep thinking I need to show up there with, like, coolers of Gatorade because I feel so bad for them. But, you know, it's pretty remarkable how much band performances and those kids are practicing. It's insane.

Vanessa Ronksley: I would have loved for you to have done that, Joe. I was also a band nerd. I was in a marching band for many, many years of my life. And I do have to tell you, those suits are made of polyester. Like, they do not breathe. They are the worst thing ever. And you're right. Like, the hours that you put in, there's no nutrition that you get. You don't get to replenish your electrolytes. Like, what Heather was saying is 100% true. Like, you have to dig deep and find your mental fortitude to get through those long training days. I'm putting that in quotation marks because it is training. It's just a different kind of training.

Joanna Nami: It also reminds me that, you know, I have to think, I mean, I'm not musical. My kids are. But you, you know, we talk about finding your why and your love of something, you know, for them, I'm sure when you are musical, the love of playing an instrument, it's got to be, you know, you'll do just about anything because you have such a love for it, similar to triathlon. People will be like, you've gotten this question, why would you do that? No normal person would run a marathon after biking 100 miles. And that's our why. That's our love for it. It's the love of, you know, the feeling of accomplishment or the love that, you know, it makes you feel mentally better, you know, after doing this stuff, or makes you feel like, like, you know, you're successful and that you have self worth, you know, all of these things. And I think that's going to be probably true with every sport we talk about is, you know, finding your why and finding your love of something that you need in your life.

Vanessa Ronksley: You know, we're gonna move over to another individual sport here, which is the sport of tennis. And I actually did not know that TriDot coach and Ambassador Julie McPhilomy came from a tennis background. So looking forward to hearing what she has to say about her tennis journey to triathlon.

Julie McPhilomy: Hi, I'm Julie McPhilomy. I played tennis growing up. I started as a seventh grader on a varsity team at my high school. And I had the opportunity to play in college. Things I learned along the way. It is an individual sport, so having that discipline and that mindset that it's you against a lot of times, just you against you or you against that other player, but learning how to define your role and how you have your attitude, how you play your game, how you strategize really relates over to triathlon in so many different ways. Each time I think about going out on a race course, I think about how I'm going to do things, my mindset, my things, and how that truly changes the outcome of the day. Certain things that carry over weirdly is to swimming. I equate it to swimming quite often on body awareness, on how to reach for that stroke or reach for that ball every time I would serve, or to follow through in a stroke or follow through in my stroke in tennis. I equate those two things very much the same, even though there is no ball in swimming. But one of the biggest things that I look at from the sport and from what I learned is you go play by play or game by game to, you know, game, set, match. When you're out on a race course and you're having a dark moment, you go mile by mile, discipline by discipline. And you start to think that same exact way. And that, for me, is something that I learned, and I'm grateful to have that opportunity and learning it as such as a young person. And how when I get to a race course now, I think often to that stuff that it's mile by mile and that it, too, shall pass. Just focus on what you're doing at that moment.

Joanna Nami: I love that from Julie. I love watching tennis. Like, I watch Wimbledon. I watch everything now. I really like to watch it. But what I love is the intensity of it and, like, how hyped these players will get. Like, I mean, Serena was, like, my favorite, and she would literally grunt after she hits every time. And I was thinking about, I'm gonna confess something. Sometimes when I'm on the bike, in, like, a hard interval, I'll catch myself. Like, it releases the pain, and I know that's what she's doing when she just yells out after hitting the ball. And I was thinking about how intense you see, like, these pros at Kona and Nice, you know, or, you know, that are just the level of intensity that they are experiencing and that they put into it. And then the other thing I thought about was there's a real similarity in the judges in tennis and the officials in triathlon and the penalties given out and how mad some of the players will get. And I've seen that on the triathlon courses. I've seen them raise a flag or penalty for someone. And, I mean, there'll be a full argument that ensues over whether, you know, you were within six feet of the bicycle in front of you or drafting. So it is a very set and defined set of rules in both sports. You know, I think in triathlon, we're getting more and more aware of following all of the rules and newer rules so that we don't get penalized during a race. Absolutely.

Vanessa Ronksley: I think that my favorite thing that Julie had mentioned in similarity between tennis and triathlon is that you have to approach tennis play by play, and then you have to approach it by game, set, match. And I think that that is a wonderful characteristic that you have to bring from any background that you have is the ability to forget what just happened. So if you had some bad moment in the swim, in the bike, in the run, you have to get over that, and you have to let it go, and you have to carry forward with the positive mindset. And I think that that's a definite skill in learning how to stop your mind from focusing on that negativity and moving forward to be able to progress, because it is a long day out there on your bike and on the run. And it's the similar thing with those tennis matches. You have to have so much focus and mental ability to push forward when things get difficult. So I love that she alluded to that.

Vanessa Ronksley: Now, moving along to our next clip. When my husband, P.J., was a kid, he had a dream of being a motorcycle racer. So I'm wondering if he had actually followed through with that dream that he would now be the triathlete in the family. We have here Simon Williams, who's a TriDot ambassador. He's going to tell us what he learned from racing motorcycles and how it transferred over to triathlon.

Simon Williams: Hi, I'm TriDot ambassador Simon Williams from Walnut Creek, California, and I competed in motorcycle road racing before becoming a triathlete in 2017. When you're racing at speeds up to 170 miles an hour, things can happen very quickly. So visual skills are a necessary tool to be looking well ahead at where you want to go next. The closer in front of us we look, the faster everything seems and the more uncomfortable we get. For example, when you're driving down the freeway and you look out of your side window, the utility poles nearest you are zipping by. But when you look at the ones further in the distance, it makes it seem that you're traveling much more slowly. These visual skills similarly apply when we're cycling on courses that have downhill sections, and especially those courses that have fast and twisty downhill sections. Places like St. George, where you can easily reach speeds of 50 miles an hour. The further ahead you can look, the slower and calmer everything will seem, which increases your confidence. The skill can also help you in situations where you may be out of your comfort zone. Another phrase from motorcycling is that you go where you look. If you go around a corner a little too fast and start staring at the edge of the road, that's likely where you're headed. However, if you can keep your focus on where you actually want to go, that is around the corner, then that's where you'll head. Much like competing at a new location that you haven't been to before, racing at new tracks usually only allowed a day of practice, so it was essential to learn the course layout as quickly as possible. One visual skill that helped here, which equally applies to cycling on unfamiliar roads, is to look at the vanishing point, which is the furthest part of the road ahead that you can see. If the vanishing point starts coming closer to you, then the corner is tightening up and you should reduce speed. And if it's moving away from you, then the road is straightening up and you can prepare to go faster. But please ride within your own abilities and appropriately for the conditions. There's another term in motorcycle racing called go fast in the fast parts, slow in the slow parts. That might seem obvious, but trying to go fast around a slow corner does not usually end well. In training and racing, I always consider the downhill after the climb to be the fast part and start pedaling harder as I crest a hill to use all that free speed and gain time on the downhill parts. It's surprising how many athletes I see taking a breather on the descent and not taking advantage of this free speed. I hope you found this helpful and that it would help you become a more confident bike rider.

Vanessa Ronksley: Well, Simon, I found that extremely helpful and I actually wish that I'd heard this prior to doing the Nice race bike course. I had been attending most of the talks that our TriDot legends had been giving and had heard the advice of looking where you want to go. I had not thought about when you look at something that's closer to you, it looks like you're going to be going faster than if you look at something that's going to be in the distance, which would have been very helpful because on those tricky descents, it seems like you're going really, really fast. And I would have appreciated knowing that if I looked a little bit further ahead, mind you, there were lots of turns in that course, so you couldn't always look ahead, but in the parts where you could, if I looked just a little bit further ahead, it wouldn't have been as scary in terms of how fast I was going. And the other thing that I thought was really helpful was learning the course prior to doing it. And that's not just having access to driving it, but looking at those course maps and making sure that you're familiar with where the turns are, where the aid stations are. Knowing all of those things ahead of time is really, really going to make sure that you are going to attack that course and have a really positive experience up on the bike. So great job. I love that tip so much.

Joanna Nami: Yeah, I was thinking about what Simon was saying and the amount of daredevils when I think about, like, motocross racing or motorcycle racing and that that translates to the daredevils we have in triathlon. Some of the people that love the thrill of the bike and fast racing and technical courses and that those daredevils tend to be the most successful bike riders in triathlon that take the most risks. And I assume it's similar when you're talking about motorcycle racing.

Vanessa Ronksley: Well, let's hear from Julie Ramsey, who is one of our TriDot Ambassadors. I know roller derby was a major part of her life. So let's hear what she has to say about how skills may have transferred over from roller derby to triathlon.

Julie Ramsey: Hi, this is Julie from Tucson, Arizona and I competed in roller derby before becoming a triathlete. So even though triathlon isn't a full contact sport, or at least we hope it's not, I think there were some really good things that transferred over between the two. And the most important was getting used to pushing myself out of my comfort zone. Before I started roller derby, I felt really awkward and uncoordinated and not at all athletic. So the idea of strapping wheels to my feet and trying to knock people over at high speed seemed like a really bad idea. But it looked fun and the players looked fierce. So I decided I'm going to get brave and I'm going to give it a chance. And there were a lot of moments when it was scary, but I got more comfortable with being uncomfortable and we do that all the time in triathlon. Another added bonus is that I'm really used to knocking into people when I'm doing sports. So the first time I did a mass start open water swim and I kept getting elbowed in the face and people were kicking me, I was like, no big deal. I'm totally used to that. But the biggest challenge of triathlon compared to derby is that it takes a totally different type of endurance and perseverance. When you're on the derby track, you've got four teammates with you. The periods are two minutes or less. So you're focusing really hard for a very short period of time. There's a lot of action, like you're trying to play offense and defense at the same time and then you're done. So compare that to going out and doing a three hour run or doing a hundred mile bike ride and it's just you and the trail and there's nothing to break up the monotony and you're all by yourself and it's just a totally different type of mental fortitude. But I found that for both of them I can fall back to my mantra of I can do hard things. And I keep telling myself that when I'm out running and I feel like my legs are going to fall off or if I'm on skates and I've got a skater coming up on me real fast, I'm trying to throw a shoulder and knock them off the track. I may be an awkward nerd, I always will be, but I'm also strong as heck. And thanks to the wonder of glitter sunscreen, I can be sparkly whether I'm skating or doing triathlon. There's room for both.

Joanna Nami: I am fascinated by this. Fascinated. I mean, I had respect for Julie Ramsey, but I have a whole new respect. Because if you've ever watched roller derby, this is crazy. I mean, this is a whole thing that I could not even fathom doing. Talk about the multitasking. I mean, there's all this strategy and offense, defense, but they're on roller skates. I can barely roller skate. I mean, like the amount of balance you would need to do this. And I was thinking also about, I mean, the hardcore mentally and the bravery to even attempt this and confidence. But the other thing was you have got to be extremely competitive. And that's what's so similar to triathlon. Well, not everybody. I mean, I have a lot of people that come to me and they're like, I'm not really in it for the competition, I just do it for the fun. And then they get really competitive. But I think it's the level of competitive spirit that as far as roller derby can be very similar to a lot of triathletes.

Vanessa Ronksley: Absolutely. When she was talking, I was thinking, oh my gosh, it's so competitive. I would love to do roller derby. But then I thought about like being on roller skates and I'm like, no, that is definitely not in my wheelhouse at my age. Exactly. But what I do love that Julie said was the mantra that she carried over from roller derby to triathlon is I can do hard things. And this is something that I say to myself very often. And it's something that my kids will actually say to me as well. They'll come down when I'm on like a 2 by 16 threshold ride and I'm like, you alluded to this, Joe. Like you're grunting and you're maybe calling out and my son will come up to me and he'll be like, mommy, you can do hard things. And I'm like, yes, I can. Yeah, exactly.

Joanna Nami: When they'll say, you've got it, mom, you've got it. You can do this, you know, and that's all you need to have that mental fortitude.

Vanessa Ronksley: Now finally, we're going to hear from our very own TriDot legend, Mark Allen. He has always had a love of the ocean and he's going to tell us how surfing has impacted his journey as a triathlete.

Mark Allen: One of the sports that I did that was sort of a supplement to swimming, cycling and running is surfing. I've been surfing since, oh geez, almost 50 years now. Crazy. But anyway, during my career, once Kona was over, I would come back home to where I was living at the time, San Diego. And from basically mid-October until January 1st, I never got in a pool. I would go out surfing a lot. And that was such a great supplement to swimming because it uses slightly different muscles. With the arching, you're arching your back the opposite direction that you would do cycling and even running. Running can hunch you over a little bit. Cycling obviously aero position really hunches you over. And when you're paddling on a board, it strengthens all those back muscles to pull your chest back, pull your shoulders back. But on top of that, it was training that was playing. And I think that's so important if people can find sort of alternative ways of training or exercising. Especially in the off season when you don't have races coming up that work similar muscles, work your cardiovascular. Being in the water, surfing really was multi leveled. It was time in nature. It was time to just kind of daydream because a lot of time surfing, you're just sitting there waiting for the waves, waiting for the sets. And so it really gave my mind a break from focus, concentrated training. And then also, you know, it is cardio. You're sprinting for five strokes or 10 strokes or getting through a set and then you get to relax. And so you really get that benefit of like that sort of super high end, quick effort and then your heart rate drops down. And as we're learning through research, some of the healthiest hearts are those that have big variations in the heartbeats during a workout as opposed to a lot of what we do in triathlon, which is very steady training. So it was a real good supplement and it strengthened my muscles for my upper body and also, I was rotating in all different directions. So it was kind of like yoga in the water in a sense that it loosened my back up, loosened my hips up, worked my balance all things that in the end kind of added to that base of fitness that I needed and used and utilized in swimming, cycling and running.

Joanna Nami: That was great from Mark. I mean, yeah, legend. And very interesting to hear about his love of surfing and how long he has done that. And I was thinking about, you know, either you love the water or you don't love the water. And growing up a swimmer, it was never like working out. It was, you know, it was therapy. I tell my athletes, we're going to get you to love it and it's going to be your water therapy. It's when your mind's going to, you know, when you're doing that amount of breathing in swimming, you know, it's just, it's kind of like yoga practice. It is therapy. It's calming the mind. And I think that that's the similarity with surfing. It can be a sense of therapy. When you're out there, you're in the water, and you've heard athletes say, you know, I feel alive for the first time. You know, instead of sitting at a desk for eight hours a day, you're outside, you're in nature. And feeling alive, I'm feeling young again. And I think that's the sense of surfing is the same thing. It's a sense of feeling alive. And I love that he was saying, sitting out there on the board, there's a sense of peace you do feel. And I think we all reach that in training and in racing. Sometimes you'll be on that bike and you'll have those moments that you have a realization about life or about your kids or about where you're supposed to be and what you're doing in your life. And I can see that, you know, surfing has given a tremendous amount of enjoyment and peace to Mark. And I think that a lot of triathletes experience that as well.

Announcer: Great set, everyone. Let's cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: It's Coach Cooldown Tip Time. And I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. Today on the Cooldown, our coach is Kelly Mulvaney. Kelly is a retired US Navy flight officer and now owns Arizona Desert Endurance. She also works part time as an NSCA certified personal trainer at Triplex Training. And she works at a running store called Some Soul Sports. Kelly is a very accomplished triathlete who has competed in both the 70.3 and the IRONMAN World Championships. She has been on the podium multiple times in both triathlon and running events. In addition to a top 10 finish at Ultraman Arizona. Kelly specializes in coaching beginner to experienced athletes who have wild goals for ultra distance races in trail running, triathlon and multisport. I feel like I'm in the presence of full on amazingness here. Kelly, welcome to the Cool Down.

Kelly Mulvaney: Hi Vanessa. Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here today.

Vanessa Ronksley: Well, I'm very excited to have you here. Tell me about being a high altitude search and rescue backcountry volunteer.

Kelly Mulvaney: This was probably one of the first places I learned mental toughness. You don't get to choose the hour or the environmental conditions in which you operate. It's usually about 1am and it's usually in terrible conditions like a snowstorm or high winds or rain, you name it. But I also learned that I may not love it, but I can also function just fine so long as I have the right mindset about it. Right. In those situations, someone else was dependent on me and my team for their life and their well being. So I didn't really have the luxury of, you know, a little self care pity party. But I also learned, and I still continue to learn that I'm way tougher than even I think I am.

Vanessa Ronksley: Oh, a hundred percent. I think most people fall into that category when we have a little bit less faith in ourselves than other people do have in us. But man, if you were on the team that was supposed to save me from some crazy risky situation, I think I'd want you to be the team leader, that's for sure. I'm just curious, what elevation is considered to be high altitude?

Kelly Mulvaney: Yeah, it varies. Officially, high altitude is considered to be between about 8,000 and 12,000 feet with a very high altitude being 10,000 feet and above. But it depends, right? The famous answer, it depends. If you were living at sea level and you flew into Denver, went for a hike, you could expect to experience illness. Right. And so sometimes we would get those calls as well. But typically as a rescue team, we would call high altitude rescue at treeline. And really it was more to characterize the type of terrain that we'd be operating on and thereby what gear we needed to bring.

Joanna Nami: That's really crazy.

Vanessa Ronksley: Well, thank you for sharing that experience that you had. I can only imagine the craziness that went on behind the scenes to make sure that people remain safe and get rescued. And let's shift here to our tip of the day. Can you tell us what Coach Cooldown tip you would like to share with our audience?

Kelly Mulvaney: Yeah, so my coach tip came to me while I was standing in transition at IRONMAN Canada in Penticton and I was sitting there eating my second breakfast and had several people walk by and say, oh, I wish I would have thought of that. I said, I need to share this with everybody. So, you know, my tip is to bring a second breakfast to transition with you. You might not eat it, you might not need it, but then again you might. Right? So we typically eat our first breakfast, our main meal of the morning, three to four hours before the start of our race. That's kind of our rule of thumb, right? So that's very carefully planned. But if you show up on race day and the water temperature dips 20 degrees overnight and IRONMAN, thank goodness, had our health and safety and wellness in mind when they canceled that swim. So now we have to kind of scramble. There was a delay and then there was a cancel. So we ended up not starting the race but maybe a couple hours after anticipated. So if you carefully planned your breakfast to be three or four hours before the start of the race and then your race starts two hours after you planned, the last time you ate something was five hours ago. Right. And that's not a great way to start a very long day. So you bring something, it doesn't have to be elaborate. You want something that's not heavy, something that's easy to digest, like maybe a snack bar and a banana or maybe an extra serving of the nutrition that you are going to use during the day. Just something to top up in that two hours before you do start or hop on the bike. You may not need it. And in that case you can toss it in the trash or put it in your morning clothes bag and maybe have it afterwards. But it's better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it. And it means you get to start a race fully fueled and ready to go, even when there's a delay.

Announcer: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew for more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today. TriDot, the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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