Clipping In: Triathlon Bike Shoes, Cleats, and Pedals
TriDot Podcast Episode 290
Clipping In: Triathlon Bike Shoes, Cleats, and Pedals
Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together. Together. Yes.
Andrew Harley: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. Today on the show, we are talking about bike pedals, cleats and shoes. We have done several TriDot Podcast episodes on running shoes. Specifically, I, I nerd out on running shoes. I probably follow way too many YouTube accounts and Instagram accounts that post about running shoes. And I don't know, it's probably just a secret obsession of mine to talk about those more so than bike stuff, but we actually got a podcast voicemail from a podcast listener who said, hey guys, I would love to hear more about bike shoes and bike pedals and learn a little bit about that. And so shout out to try out athlete Nell, who suggested this topic and happy to hit it for you. And yeah, it's a long overdue topic and happy to help guide your pedal selection, your bike shoe selection, and yeah, the two coaches I have here to talk with us about this are Jeff Raines and Ben Somerville, both TriDot Podcast veterans. And I say that loosely because Jeff's been on the show probably a hundred times. Ben has been on once. So we've got Ben back for the second time. Ben, Jeff, how are you guys doing? Excited to see y'. All.
Ben Sommerville: I'm doing great. Really looking forward to this. It's a much needed topic for sure.
Jeff Raines: Doing great. Love to be back and wish I had as awesome of an accent as Ben does.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah, we all do. We all do. On staff. All right, well, I am Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack. As always. We're going to start up with our warm up question, settle in to our main set topic, where today we'll learn about bike pedals and bike shoes and bike cleats and then we'll move on to the coach cooldown. Tip of the week. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.
Announcer: Time to warm up. Let's get moving.
Warm Up
Andrew Harley: All right, gentlemen, for our warm up question today, while we're talking and thinking about bikes, I want to know what is the most difficult climb you've ever completed on a bike ride? It can be during a training ride, it can be during a race. It can be a short and steep hill. It can be a long and grinding hill. But I want to know, in your experience on two wheels, what was the most challenging uphill climb you've tackled? I'll kick this over to Ben first. Ben, what do you think?
Ben Sommerville: This is a great question. And I've got good, bad, good and bad memories of this climb. So it has to be SA Calobra, which is in Majorca in Spain. And on paper, it doesn't look like the hardest climb in the world. It's just under 10k, average gradient of about 7 max 12. But it's like a tale of two halves. The first half, like, tricks you into thinking it's super easy. And there's lots of tree cover, so you can't really see where you're going. And then halfway, you just suddenly can see the rest of the climb. The hairpins, the switchbacks going up. And then once you can see that the gradient kicks in and you realize you're in for one hell of a climb. It is brutal, but it is so good.
Andrew Harley: Coach Jeff, I, I don't think your answer here is Mallorca, Spain. What is this for you?
Jeff Raines: I do have one that's international, but there, there's two in the States that are arguably some of the most iconic rides or routes in the United States. And you know, one of them is Mount Mitchell. Um, it's the tallest point. It's the tallest point.
Andrew Harley: I have hiked Mount Mitchell, Jeff. I've hiked it. I haven't biked it.
Jeff Raines: Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's known as being the highest point east of the Mississippi river in the United States. And it's a hard climb. We, we had our, a TriDot camp there in partnership with RaceQuest last year, and we rode up to the top. It was about 30 miles up, 30 miles down Another one west of the Mississippi is Mount Lemon in Tucson, Arizona. And it's, it's an awesome climb. It's also about 30 miles up, 30 miles down. You eat at the cookie cabin up at the top, get some pizza. I, I would, I would say I've ridden them both in the last six months and Mount Lemon multiple times. I think Mount Mitchell is a little bit harder.
Andrew Harley: Yeah.
Jeff Raines: Yeah, I bet Mount Lemon is a, is kind of a longer but, but, but steady climb, kind of that 5% grade. But the Mount Mitchell one is 1012, 8, 5. A lot of undulation. So I will say that's harder. And then I have to throw out Nice, France. Gosh, that, that 40 mile climb up to Corsa Goules I think is how you pronounce it. And that race, I think we all know, but it has the steepest 5k, 1k, 10k segments of any IRONMAN distance in the world. So that was an awesome climb, awesome experience.
Andrew Harley: I'm going to go a little bit different here. I did think about some of the more longer and slower grinds. There's definitely a few that I could throw out. Nothing on the scale of what Jeff and Ben have done, but the one I want to give a shout out to when I did escape from Alcatraz. And Jeff, actually you and I did that race the same year, you know, riding through the streets of San Francisco, a very steep, hilly city. You know, you're along the coast for a large portion of it. There's some really solid ups and downs. But there was one hill in particular, about halfway on the out and back where I remember the first time you hit this hill, you're going downhill and it's literally just a short, punchy. It wasn't one of the long grinding climbs, but it was a street where when I was going down it, I remember thinking, I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it up this hill going the other direction. And so literally, like, once I got to the turnaround point, you know, down by the coast, by the ocean, I turn around, I start heading back into the city, back towards, you know, T2. And I know in my head, like this climb is coming, this climb is coming and you kind of have some, like, some more gradual climbing and you're kind of working your way up back towards the peak in the city. And I knew where this spot was and I get there and I just. You make a right hand turn and you've got this punchy, super steep, short little section. And Jeff, it was probably, I don't know if you know what part of the road I'm talking about. It had to have been a hundred yards tops. Like it's not a very long portion of road, but it was steep enough that I was concerned and I just hit my lowest gear as I made that right hand turn and I just punched it. I got my cadence up as high as I could and I was just working that cadence all the way to the top and I made it, but it was a little dicey and I imagine there's probably some folks having to stop and walk on that portion of road. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Jeff Raines: I totally remember it. It's an out of the saddle climb. Also, it had rained right before I got there. So it was kind of a wet road on that hard ride and you know, just a little bit of wind and wet roads and light rain throws an extra curveball in that mix.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, I've never thought to myself I might have to stop and walk, but I was concerned and thankfully I made it. I didn't have to stop and walk personally, but that one stands out for me. It's just like, man, we don't have that kind of terrain in Dallas, Texas, that's for sure. Hey guys, we're going to throw this question out to you, our audience, like we always do. Make sure you're a member of the TriDot Community Hub. We're going to pose this question on the Monday this show drops to find out from you in all of the racing and training you've done what is the most challenging climb and that you have completed on your bike. Can't wait to see what you have to say.
Announcer: On to the main set going in three, two, one.
Main Set
Andrew Harley: All right, into our main set where we are focused on bike pedals, bike cleats and bike shoes. Everybody on a bike you gotta have a way to put power through the wheels. And there's a variety of types of pedals you can use. There's a variety of types of shoes you can use. And here to help us sort through how we should be attaching our feet to our bike, it's coach Ben and coach Jeff. So guys, where I want to start today is just for you personally I'm curious to hear what is your setup when it comes to pedals and shoes. What pedals are you using? What shoes are you using? I'm assuming you know you're going to use the cleats that just match the pedals. But we'll get into that. Coach Jeff Raines.
Jeff Raines: I, I've got three pair actually, four pairs of bike shoes.
Andrew Harley: Fancy man.
Jeff Raines: Three, Three are road focused. Try focused. And one is a mountain bike. But you know my, my, my favorite in race day one is actually the middle tier of the three. I, I, I've got a hundred dollar, I've got a $200 and a $400 pair of bike shoes. And my favorite one is that middle tiered one. It's the Fizik Trans zero Hydra is what it's called. It's a, got this like kind of nylon upper 3D mesh where it breathes really easily. They, they call it the power strap for, for like a quick transition. I like the one big velcro strap. Fizik calls it that Power strap and I also like bike shoes that have the big loop on the heel. I, I know we're going to dive a little bit into this but it helps you get it on and you can use the rubber bands. Right. And, and actually this new Fizik Transero shoe, the cleat settings are further back on the shoe which I think we'll talk a little bit about later. The why of that as well. But they have a new vent hole on the bottom so if your feet are wet, water sweat can drain out but also airflow gets in there and, and then I, for the pedals I, I use the Shimano SPD SL is my favorite. I, I like that extra wide platform. I, I call it kind of the triangles. Easy to clip in and better power transfer as well.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, very, very good. Yeah. As you can tell going to get really nerdy today and you're going to hear some very specific brand names and titles and, and, and features. And Jeff, I find it really interesting that you, you even say like of all the shoes, bike shoes you have, you know your go-tos aren't necessarily the most expensive, most feature packed pair. And we'll talk about this a little bit later. But, but part of that is cuz what you need in your cycle shoe kind of depends on what kind of racing you're doing. Right. Like I, you know, in this time right now I'll go ahead and say what I'm using. You know I have the Garnier, the Louis Garnier men's tri air light triathlon shoes. They're kind of this like really fun silver and they have a big strap toward the top of your foot but they have a boa dial a little farther down. And so you know they take a little bit longer to slip your shoe in or to get your foot in the shoe because you're having to adjust that boa dial and all that jazz to get the perfect fit. But they're really secure. More like a road shoe on your foot. Well that's great for half IRONMAN. You know, when you're going middle distance and longer because you, you want to take that time to really get your foot strapped down into the shoe. But when you're racing sprint and Olympic short course and you want to do, you know, get on the shoe and, and put your feet in the shoe while you're pedaling, you want it to be as easy as possible, right. You want one strap to, to get your at most right. To, to get your foot in the shoe and get, get Comfortable and strapped in. And so like I'm actually looking at purchasing a cheaper pair of shoes than the Garnier’s already have because they're a higher end model. They cost quite a bit at the time that I got them especially. And so I'm looking at actually getting a simpler pair where it just takes one strap to get my shoe in. Because for me, over the next course, the next couple of years, I'm looking at doing more short course racing than long course racing. And so I'm like, man, I actually need a lower caliber shoe. Anyway, we'll get into that a little bit. So, but just interesting to kind of hear you already starting to plant those seeds of, hey, you don't always need like the, the 400, 500 tricked out pair of shoes. It really depends on what kind of racing you're doing. Coach Ben, with the kind of racing that you do, what is your bike shoe and bike pedal setup?
Ben Sommerville: So I have just gone through the process of changing my bike shoe brand and type of shoes because I'm doing the exact opposite of you. Historically, I've been a short course athlete. I'm having a little bit of a mix it up at the moment and I'm going a little bit longer and so my shoe type has changed. So I've gone from a Fizik because they're typically, you know, an Italian brand. A little bit narrow, a little bit smaller, very well known. I've switched to a lesser known British brand called Clock. They're slightly better value for money, a little bit cheaper. So again, that kind of mid range shoe, no need to spend four or five hundred pounds spending that kind of 150 to 250. And I'm doing so because for the longer distance event I'm actually going to choose to use a cycling shoe rather than a triathlon shoe. And so we'll talk about a little bit that a little bit more later. And again, like Jeff pedals Shimano SPD SLS every single day of the week and their cleats, I think on my triathlon bike I've got an Ultegra pedal set road bike 105. They're a little bit more durable, slightly heavier, a bit cheaper. So if I have to replace them because of wear and tear, it's not a huge sort of dent on the bike balance. They get more use essentially. But we can talk more about that a little bit later.
Andrew Harley: Yeah. So it's very interesting to hear what you two guys personally are using. And Jeff, you've got your stable of multiple bike shoes. You know, Ben, you're actually switching from more of a short course bike shoe setup to a longer course bike shoe setup. And we'll talk more about the shoe options on the market and why an athlete should pick one shoe over another a little bit later in the episode. But what I want to know first, like beyond what the three of us use, when an athlete rolls up to a race, right, and you're looking around, you see everybody else getting their, their, their T1 set up going on and they're racking their bikes and everybody's putting their shoes out and everybody's got their pedals. Like, what are the different options that triathletes have at the local races? What are the different, you know, what are the most common setups that our athletes are using when it comes to bike pedals and shoes? Coach Ben?
Ben Sommerville: Obviously every athlete is different and so there's going to be, you know, so many different variations of what we see at any level of triathlon, let alone just a local event. And so the most common I see are, of course, either a flat pedal situation, so that's like a standard pedal that you might have used on a bike when you were learning to ride a bike. And then they're simply just wearing a pair of running shoes, running trainers. And then the next step up from there is obviously a clipless pedal system. And when I go to events, I see a really good, healthy mix. Even in the beginners, you see some beginners going straight to that clipless pedal system. Obviously there's a great deal of benefit for doing so. Obviously there comes a little bit of a skill development phase when you get moving from sort of flat pedals to the clipless. And I think because there are so many brands and options out there now, we're just seeing so many different variations, so many different types of shoes, and it gives everybody a chance to find a shoe that fits their feet, fits their budget. And it gives us as coaches and for bike fitters, just loads of great talking points to help athletes just find the right shoes for them so they can get into the sport comfortably, safely. They don't necessarily have to worry about having a 500 pound, 500 pair of performance shoes when they get started. They can just find a comfortable pair of shoes, a pedal system that works, and just get involved in the sport and give it a go.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, pretty well identified there, right? You, when you're getting into the sport, you, you either have a platform pedal with your running shoes or you have a clip in pedal with clip in cycling shoes. And Guys, I personally, personally, I, I, I like, in middle school, high school, I did some mountain biking in Central Florida, where I grew up with, with, with friends and, you know, obviously, like, serious mountain bikers at that time had, you know, their, their, their, their bike shoes clipped into the bike pedal and especially mountain biking. That thought terrified me. I just knew I was gonna, I was gonna hit a tree and start rolling down a hill on my bike, you know, with my, with my feet and body just, like, totally attached to my bike the whole time, rolling down the hill. That's the mental image I had as a middle schooler with the mindset of, oh, I'm clipping my feet in. Uh, so when I, when I started picking up triathlon, I had no intentions of, of buying, going, going for the clipless setup where you're actually physically attaching your feet to the pedal. And so my, my very first race, I just had the platform bike pedal that came with my bike. I just had my running shoes on, and I, I did all right. I'm sure I would have been faster the other way. Uh, but from there, it, it did give me the. Oh, man, I, I, I'm, I'm hungrier to get a little bit better here. And so my next purchase for race number two, I got the platform pedal that had, like, a cage built over it. I'm sure there's a more proper term for that, but, but that way I was still wearing my running shoes.
Jeff Raines: I've always called stirrups. I got a horse.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like, yeah, yeah, like you're riding a horse. Put your feet in the stirrups. I totally get that. Uh, but it, it, it gives you, you know, on the whole pedal stroke, you're able to apply more power, right? You, you got your foot attached, but not in a way where you feel like you're going to fall over, uh, and roll down a hill like Andrew thought he was gonna do as a mountain bike, a young mountain biker. So, and then eventually, I think by race three or four, I went for the full clipless setup and never looked back. So, but yeah, Ben, like you said, when I go to the local races here in Dallas, when I go to an IRONMAN event, you see all three of those variations, right? At any level in the sport. And, but, but I am curious, Ben, you mentioned that there are advantages to doing the clipless setup, and we call it clipless. And it's a little misleading because a clipless pedal is where you're actually clipping in like you're clipping your shoe to the pedal. They call it clipless, which makes no sense to me, but here we are. Coach Ben, what is the advantage of going to that once an athlete has the budget to or feels comfortable trying to make that jump, first and foremost.
Ben Sommerville: You know, it's a great option when you want to start taking the sport more seriously or you just want to jump on and use it. And it's. The first and primary benefit is because it improves your pedaling efficiency. As you said, you've got that contact with the pedal the entire time. When you're using a flat or the stirrup setup with your pedals, generally, it's very sort of emphasis. The emphasis is on that downstroke of the pedal. Very quad heavy. When you use the misleadingly named clipless pedals, you've got constant contact with the pedals. So you can use your calves, your hamstrings, your glutes, as well as your quads to really efficiently pedal all the way through the pedal stroke, bring that foot back from underneath you over the top, and then push back down. And so, you know, first and foremost, it's all about pedaling efficiency. And then, yeah, for those athletes who do want to do flying mounts, it then just improves that process. It speeds up that process in transition. Because your shoe is already there on the bike, all you've got to do is fling yourself over, pop your feet in, and then off you go. And you can put your feet in at the same time as getting your bike moving. So you're not only saving time, but you're gaining space on the course versus your competitors who might still be in the changing tent tying their laces or doing up their bow or dials. So, yeah, it's certainly a valuable addition to any, any cyclist and triathlete's arsenal. Go straight to clipless if you possibly can. I encourage most of my athletes to move as quickly as possible for all of the reasons I've just mentioned.
Andrew Harley: Coach Jeff, when people are making that jump and it's a jump, right, like, you know, again, just the mindset of, oh, crap, my foot is actually attached to this pedal. For better or for worse, um, how do you coach your athletes to make that jump and get comfort comfortable doing that motion, Making the motion of clipping their feet in and getting comfortable with the idea of having their, their body attached to the bike?
Jeff Raines: Yeah, there, there's, there's a couple of kind of helpful, you know, step by step or, or. Or process, not process of elimination. We'll call it order of operations. Right. Um, you know, and, and, and we know that those benefits help us. And, and I kind of say that we're kind of getting rid of the third dimension. When you're clipped in, you're kind of stuck in that second dimension. You don't have that inefficiency of slipping. You can keep better power. And all the things that Ben just said. And those benefits were noticed. I'll just take a quick step back. Those benefits were noticed in the 80s, predominantly. Cycling with cleats is definitely that most common in the sport when you walk into transition, like you were saying earlier. But the cleats and clipless pedals kind of first hit the cycling market in the 80s, 80s and look created this for bikes. And what they did is they mirrored the step in ski binding for skiing. So they saw that benefit in the sport of skiing and it translated over to cycling. And then Bernard Hanault in the Tour de France used that look design in 1985 and it got a lot of looks, pun intended there. And the rest is history, right? But basically, first timers, it is intimidating. I started with the flat pedal and then the flat pedal with that stir upper cage. And then I got the mountain bike clip ins, you know that dual sided, right. And so I would start on a wall, stationary, clip in and out, clip in and out, turn the bike the other way, clip in and out, clip in and out. Then you get on the grass, right? In, in, in a high gear, easy gear, and just bike slow, practice clipping in and out. But when you're ready to actually get onto a road and start trying to clip in and out, I, I would be aware of stop signs and anticipate, right, a stop coming ahead. So you always want to be aware. Sometimes you kind of forget you're in that hard gear. You come to the stop sign and you're like, oh, crud, I need to unclip. And you forget and you fall over to that opposite side, right? Still happens. It happens to all of us. Still about once a year I still will unclip my right leg and then my weight transfers to the left. Oh, crud, I'm falling over. It's like slow motion.
Andrew Harley: It's just like a rite of passage, right? It's not, it's not a big deal. You're usually fine. The bike's usually fine. You know, just square your shoulder up, take the impact and you know, everybody has, everybody you're riding with has a few laughs and, and you know, you get up and go on your way.
Jeff Raines: Yeah. And actually what, what, what I would educate athletes to do is to unclip both feet as you're coming to that stop sign for a while your first month or so, and then you'll get better at unclipping one and being able to stay leaning on that safe side. Right. But, you know, I, I would say to, to engage your cycling shoe kind of into a cl, right, first you're going to press down the cleat of your cycling shoe over the spring mechanism. There's a spring mechanism in these pedals. We'll talk a little bit more about that. But when you hear the click and you feel kind of a solid connection, you know, your cleat and shoe are kind of securely connected, you know, to the pedal.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, it's very clear. Yeah.
Jeff Raines: And then to disengage, right. Most versions require you to turn your heel outwards with, with a little bit of force, right. There's a tension setting. You can make it easier or harder to unclip so, so you'll also hear a click when, when your foot is free. And you can adjust that degree of force or that degree of kind of float a little bit as well. But you, you may want to make it a little bit easier to unclip in and out at first, and then as you get more and more comfortable, kind of make that tension tighter. But anyways, your foot is securely fixed on the pedal and you have various degrees of float or kind of that lateral movement. But you know, that helps protect your knees. So you are clipped in, but there's a little bit of float there to protect those knees. And then kind of finally, you know, you'll. You'll want to leave a lot of time to kind of disengage your foot before you have to stop again. So just make sure you're in an easier gear, you see, and anticipate that stop up ahead. Click to an easier gear. So when you clip back in and that light turns green. If you're in your hardest gear, sometimes you can't get up and moving fast enough and you fall. So you'll start, start to do that second nature over time.
Andrew Harley: Now, Jeff, you did mention the word float. What is float and what should be looking for when it comes to float in our, in our cycling pedals?
Jeff Raines: I'm really, really glad you brought that up there. There's kind of four main things to consider when, when buying that, that cleat system that's going to go on the bottom of whatever shoe you choose. And then it needs to be compatible, obviously, with the pedal that you're clipping. Into the four things to really consider are stack heights, the Q factor. Right. And we can talk about those later. But more importantly, to answer your question, is the degree of float and then the spring tension of, of the actual clip in. Okay, so those are kind of the four main things. And, and what you're referring to is the degree of float. I think most pedals, I would argue 7 out of 10, 8 out of 10, just for simplicity, there have about a. A 3 to 5 degree of float. So even though you are clipped in, your foot is secure, you're safe, you're in. Right. You can adjust the tension of how hard it is to clip in and out. Okay. But inside of that, when you are clipped in, regardless of that spring tension, the degree of float is just that little bit of. It's more of a heel wiggle. Right. So if you feel like your. Your heel in that float is, is tapping the bike frame, you may want to adjust the cleat. Right. Clockwise or counterclockwise. Right. To kind of help with that. But I prefer that 3 to 5 kind of safe amount of float. And then I also will make sure that when I'm getting that bike fit every year or so, that that degree of float is safe and keeping my foot, you know, parallel to the bike frame and where I'm not kind of like, quote, pronating or that heel's coming in or something like that.
Andrew Harley: Now, now we've talked about pedals a little bit here without really talking about the different types of pedals. Right. There, There are, you know, in running shoes, there's like, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 brands of running shoes these days. Right. And at the end of the day, they're all slightly different variations of the same thing. Right. When it comes to bike pedals, there are three or four or five different types of bike pedals, and they are worlds apart. Like, they are very, very different. Ben, can you kind of talk to us about what the different bike pedal options are in the market?
Ben Sommerville: Yeah, for sure. And this is a really interesting question, because when you look at cycling, you look at triathlon, they're sports where innovation just happens every five minutes. But then when you look at pedals, innovation really doesn't.
Andrew Harley: Yeah.
Ben Sommerville: And it hasn't really changed. As Jeff said. Look, introduced the sort of the clipless pedal back in the 80s, and that very same system is still around today, is still used in effectively the same format. And so, yes, look as a brand is probably one of the major ones, as Jeff and I have already mentioned, the ones that we use Shimano is the next one is probably the most accessible. It's probably the best value for money. And then you've got some of the more niche brands and you've got Time, I think that's a. Another French brand. And then you've got Speedplay. And I generally categorize Shimano and Time in a similar category. They've got much larger platforms. You know, that triangle is larger on the Shimano, sort of horizontally, sort of, you know, it's, it's width time are a bit longer. So end to end they're a bit longer. And so you've got to look there at the type of shoe you're using. Do they have the correct bolt system to use that pedal in the first place? Whereas Shimano is pretty universally acceptable, most shoes will be compatible with a Shimano pedal and a Shimano cleat look are a little bit smaller still a triangle shape. So it's a good platform. But the pedal and the cleat systems are a tiny bit smaller, but again, universally compatible with almost every single cycling shoe, at least that I've come across. And then you're super, super niche. And this is, you know, for very specific reasons, you've got Speedplay. They're kind of like a little golf ball shaped pedal. And they're generally used by those who have got a much more aerodynamic focus in mind because they offer aero design, aero formats of these pedals. So they've got that kind of golf ball dimpling effect on the pedal. And you know, they're just a little bit more expensive as well. And then obviously you've got to consider, you know, with all of these, with these pedals, how are you going to get the spare parts? Whether it's the cleat bolts, the act, the cleat themselves, any spaces between your shoe and the cleat. I know I have spaces in my shoe because I've got a slight imbalance between one leg and the other. And that often dictates which shoe.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, we're buddies.
Ben Sommerville: Exactly. So you people don't know what they don't know until you go see a bike fitter or go and see a shoe specialist. They don't realize that you don't just buy a pedal and a cleat. It's different types of bolts, it's different types of spaces. And to cover all of those things. And you know, some shoes that might not be overtly compatible with one of the more niche pedals may be compatible with an adapter. So You've just got to do your research there. But I always recommend Shimano, their parts are accessible online in store, and there's loads of adjustability. And when it comes to choosing those cleats, all those pedals, they're often done by color. So look. And Shimano, they've got different colored cleats mean different amounts of float. So the one you probably see the most is Shimano. The yellow ones, that's the most float. Blue, which is a bit more niche, is slightly less flow. And then you've got the red ones, which is pretty much near as makes a difference your foot is fixed. And so it's a really complex question. But in the rest of the market, there's not a great deal of innovation beyond that. And so provided you do your research at a from the beginning that your shoe will be compatible with the pedal, and then you've got the right cleat for you and any extra spaces and parts that you need to kind of adapt it to your foot, then you know that's the best place to start. And as always, ask your local bike shop if you're really not sure they're the real experts. They know those parts inside and out.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, I was just about to say that, Ben. It's, it can. It was overwhelming for me when I was trying to figure all this out and figure out what do I need. And if you go to a bike shop or a triathlon store, if you have one anywhere remotely near you, they make it so easy because they have all the stuff in stock that you need and they're going to help you sort through, you know, what's, what's going to be the best all around setup for you, depending on what kind of riding you're doing. And I personally, I don't know anyone that I ride with, that I train with, that I talk to that has time. Pedals, I'm certainly familiar with them. I've heard of them, I've seen pictures of them. I don't think I've seen them in person ever. I'm sure I've been in a race where someone was using them and I just didn't notice them. But most of the folks that ride around me seem to have either Shimano or Look, which like you said, are very similar, or they have Speedplay and the Speedplay. I've never tried them for, for athletes that don't know this, the, the other three brands, you clip in by essentially like kind of pushing your foot forwards into the pedal and it snaps in Right. And. And once you know how to do it, it's. It's pretty easy to do it, but you got to get your foot right in the right spot on the pedal and push forward, and it snaps. And the pedal has to be facing a certain direction to do that speed plan.
Jeff Raines: And they're weighted, and they're weighted so that that hook or triangle is up.
Andrew Harley: Yeah.
Jeff Raines: There's a top and a bottom, and you can only clip on the top.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, the pedal. Yeah. Great. Great point, Jeff. That the pedal is already facing in the optimal position. By the way they're weighted for you to just slide your foot forward into them. It's really hard to miss. It'd be really hard to get it wrong. But for people who just don't like the idea of, oh, I can only clip in one way. The speed play pedals, you can clip in on either side. It's just a little round spindle. And whether it's. No matter what way it's facing, you kind of stomp your foot onto it and you start. You start going. And. And I have friends that like that system because of that. They just feel like they can't miss. You know, they just stomp onto the pedal, and then off they go. To me, it just seems like a smaller spot to hit and get right, But I've never tried it. Maybe it's really easy. Jeff, as you're talking with athletes, do you know, kind of that the pros and those are kind of the two different systems, right. That the clipping in with your foot going forwards or the stomping on the pedal because it's a speed play. What do you hear from your athletes on the pros and cons of both of those systems?
Jeff Raines: They're both great. And I think those who love one, you know, are always going to vouch for that. And then it's the equal on the other. And really, there are some pros and cons that might help decide in which one of those styles. And I'll just add that what Ben said is spot on and perfect, but inside of that, there's kind of like a lower tiered, middle tier, higher tiered version of each one of those.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, good point.
Jeff Raines: Right. And so there's a $60 option in. In each of those pedals that Ben talked about, and there's a 4 or $500 option usually in some of those. And. And the differences are weight differences. Right. The materials used. So cheaper models will have plastic bodies and steel axles. The more expensive models will use carbon and titanium. But that weight factor, more expensive models will weigh less and they'll be more stiff or stiffer. Right. So that power transfer goes straight into the crank and, and then kind of something else we haven't talked about is the bearings inside of the pedal. That pedal spins. Right. And so there's steel versus ceramic bearings. Steel is heavier, but it lasts longer. Right. And so, so considering all of that, then you kind of ask your question. Right. And so, so the, excuse me. The speed play are very popular, but they're, they're harder to install. They usually wear out a little bit quicker and the cleats on the bottom of the shoe wear out a little bit quicker.
Andrew Harley: But I have heard, Jeff, the speed play cleats are easier to walk in. Is that true? I've never walked in them.
Jeff Raines: Actually. They're, they're, they weren't. The consensus was the opposite until recently. They, they created a new cleat cover you can put on.
Andrew Harley: Okay.
Jeff Raines: To walk around in, which made it a lot better. Now that's relatively new for them. But, but yeah, I mean I, I, I have A quick statistic. 220 triathlon rated for 2025. The three best triathlon clipless pedals in order. You know, this is their pick, so I'm just going to read it. But the overall pick and the highest rated was Shimano's Ultegra. Their favorite level was the PDR8000. The most customizable are the Wahoo Speedplay arrow pedals. Okay. So they're harder to install and take a while, but once you get them, they're more customizable. So that might help in your decision. And then that Shimano Ultegra, they kind of ranked at like a 90 score. Time was at an 85 because they're super easy to clip in and they're lighter. But the caveat is they're more expensive. And then Wahoo Speedplay at that 82. The look Keo classic 3 and 2 max are 85%. And then lastly there's a bunch of statistics, but there are also pedals that have a power meter measurement inside. And so the best power meter pedal ranking for 220 triathlon was the Garmin Rally Series.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, thank you for bringing up power. I, I was actually about to say that because in the opening question we were all talking about what our current setup is. My current setup I mentioned my tri shoe is a Louis Garnet. One of their higher end tri shoes. I'm using the Assioma power pedals. Those are my pedals. And so we actually and been giving us an overview of all the different pedal types. We didn't even mention my pedal. Right. And because here's what you have. You have Garmin, which you just mentioned, Jeff. They have their rally pedals and then I have the. A lot of folks have the Faveiro Assioma power pedals. And basically the companies that do power pedals, they're using look or Shimano compatible cleats. Right. And so the pedals are like I used to have, look cleats or look pedals. That was my very first pedal, was the look KO2 classic. I think they were like 80 bucks. They kind of got me into clipless pedals to begin with and I upgraded to the power ones over time, but I did not have to change my cleats at all because the cleats were equally compatible between look and my current power pedals. And so if you're out there and you're looking at getting new pedals and you don't have a power meter already, getting power pedals is a great way to get a power meter onto your bike while you're also buying your pedal purchase and you're kind of combining two different purchases into one. So those are options out there. The Garmin ones are great. The Assioma ones are great. Athletes that have either seem to be plenty happy with their experience. So, Jeff, thanks for bringing up the power component. You can have a power meter in your pedals or not. It just depends on how you want to have power on your bike. So great little addition there. Talking about that.
Ben Sommerville: You both beat me to it on that one. I was going to mention power because not only is it great to have those two purchases in one, it makes it so much easier to transfer a power meter across your bike the minute you start installing power meters in the hub of your rear wheel or in your crank set, whether that's drive side or non drive side. It just makes it a million times more difficult if you're not technically savvy, to take your power meter with you. A simple pair of power pedals. Yeah, they're a little bit heavier, sometimes a bit more expensive than normal pedal and cleat system, but you can put it on any bike you want. So if you're lucky enough to have multiple bikes, there's another win for power pedals right there.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, 100. It's exactly the exact reason I did pedals. Another great addition. You know, we're kind of taking a tangent here, but it's, it's on point, it's pretty budget friendly to do it that way because you don't have to buy the high end both cleats or both pedals at the same time. With both the Garmin Rally pedals and the Assioma power pedals, you can buy one pedal that's a power pedal and another one that's just standard and that's a more budget friendly option. So for a couple hundred bucks, you can do that. And you have, you have power on one side but not the other, which gets you kind of in the ballpark of what power you're putting out. And you can always upgrade later and have power pedals on both sides or you can splurge on both being power straight away just depends on your budget. So, so we mentioned a little bit about cleats earlier, right? You're, you're going to, whichever pedal you have, you're going to get the cleats that match that pedal. And like Ben said, within those cleats there's a couple different degrees of float. Is, is that it that we need to know about cleats? Is it kind of choose which pedal system you want and then just get the cleat that matches it? Is there anything more nuanced to it? Now that we have an understanding of pedals, I just want to make sure before we move on the shoes, we also understand what cleat we're using with our pedal coach.
Jeff Raines: Jeff, that's a really good question. And, and to, to kind of understand cleats, you kind of have to understand the, the, how the pedals are made, what the pieces and parts. So, so just a quick education piece, the, the main parts of the clipless pedal, and I know we're talking about cleats, here are the axle and, and the thread, right? And those connect to your bike's crank arm, the pedal body, and then also that provides a platform for your foot, obviously. And then the spring mechanism which connects and disconnects your shoe to the pedal. Some pedals will have that spring mechanism covered and uncovered. Covering it makes it a little bit more aero, but a little bit more heavier. Things like that. But it's also crucial, right, to match your shoes, pedals and cleats because they're often specific to the riding disciplines and also each brand, like Ben mentioned earlier. But the clipless road bike pedals use that three bolt system we talked earlier, as opposed to the two bolt cleats, which are more kind of compatible with mountain bike style shoes and pedals. But Shimano pedals work with that SPD and SPDSL cleat while look and time pedals, they need their own brand specific cleats. So you have to know that. And I know we touched on that earlier, but something to consider also with the cleats is how the wear and tear is going to look or how fast it's going to wear and tear the cleats on the bottom of the shoes. So some cleats have actually wear markers that show a new color when they're too worn out. It's pretty neat. And so like Ben mentioned, kind of that, that yellow, that SPDSL is kind of a black and yellow cleat on the bottom of your shoe. And so whenever that yellow starts to wear out and the black shows through the yellow, that you know that they're too worn down. Right. And so when picking cleats, you, you, you, you, you need to know how much you're going to be walking around in that shoe. But you know, you can also get cleat covers in some of the models. But the biggest thing is keep the cleats clean and don't let dirt and mud clog up the springs. Right? So if you're somebody who's going to be standing on the side of the road and dirt or the gravel component, you may want to get a cleat that, that has the spring on the pedal covered, but also the cleat that, that has lugs there. And then, you know, make sure we talked about that clearance factor. You, you don't want the lugs on your shoe if you're not going a super flat bottom. You don't want the lugs, lugs to protrude down further or interfere with that, that, that cleat clearance. So that is something also to consider when buying the cleats on and putting them on your specific bottom of the shoe.
Andrew Harley: Coach Ben, as a triathlon coach, how seriously do you talk to your athletes about once they move to this kind of a setup, they're going to a clipless setup. They're getting proper bike shoes and big boy pedals and they're gonna clip in. How vital is a, is a bike fit when you go make that move?
Ben Sommerville: It's fundamentally crucial. It's probably one of the most important things you can do after moving to a, you know, making that commitment to a clipless pedal system. I've been through many bike fits, many different types of shoes, many different types of bikes, and every single times it changes and it can change season by season because your anatomy, your biomechanics change as Your body is progressing through the sport, you know, things happen. And so you've got to pay attention to those finer details. And, you know, I've got, in my right shoe, I've got cleat spacers, because there's a discrepancy. And not only that, is it just a stack spacer, it is also a stack spacer with a degree of a dip in it to try and help with the actual, you know, lateral level of my foot, you know, the angle of it. So it can get really, really sort of down into the weeds. Really super sort of marginal gains and fine details. But every great bike bitter will always start with the feet. And if, you know, and that's where they should start. Because of the three contact points you have on a bike, the feet are probably the most important one.
Andrew Harley: But hands, hands, foot, foot, hands, bum, feet.
Ben Sommerville: But feet, hands, bum, you know, those are your three main contact points. And I've always worked with athletes and with bike fitters, you know, we're always looking at the feet first. Let's make sure that the feet are comfortable because the feet are in the wrong position and that that could, you know, affect where you fix your cleat. Your, you know, left foot might need to be a little bit further rotated inwards or outwards. That affects the internal, external rotation of your joints, your knees, your femur, your hips, and how you're able to utilize your musculature to actually drive power through the pedals to prevent injuries, to just increase performance, to increase comfort more than anything else. You know, that fore and aft adjustment on cleats, provided you've got the shoe with the platform to do it, there's a huge margin before and after adjustment, and every great bike fitter will always start there. So, you know, my advice to anybody, if they're changing shoes or if they feel like they're not so comfortable whilst they're pedaling on their bike, specifically in their feet, go find a really great bike fitter, go and speak to your local bike shop and get the advice that you need because you are potentially risking injury or you're just limiting your performance and your comfort at the very least. And so it's just, it's. Yeah, I'm not a bike fitter, so I always just pass my athletes onto our preferred team bike fitter and let him do the rest. Jake, he's absolutely incredible. He works absolute magic, as do most bike fitters do. It's crazy how much of a difference it can make.
Jeff Raines: And I'll add one thing we might as well touch on that. We've talked about three of those four things I mentioned earlier, but we have to talk about this. This is huge. When you're getting that bike fit or if you're using the shims, that Q factor I mentioned earlier. And what that is the distance between the outside of each pedal when they're level with the bottom bracket.
Andrew Harley: It. Okay.
Jeff Raines: So it's kind of how far out your feet are, right. From the frame of.
Andrew Harley: Yeah.
Jeff Raines: And so if you're going from short course to long course or you're somebody who's not very flexible, I see this in a lot of individuals with. With maybe a little bit of belly fat to lose right. When you're down in arrow and especially the longer you are out on a ride at the top of the pedal stroke, people tend to, when they fatigue, their knees splay out wide at the top of the pedal stroke. Right. And we want that knee to track over the widest part of the foot straight down. So a better transfer of power. So some individuals may want to have a pedal system that has a greater Q factor. So. So your feet are actually slightly wider or further out away from that bike frame to give you a little bit better clearance. So that's something to consider as well.
Andrew Harley: I. I want to spend our last little bit of time here talking about shoes. I think we've covered cleats really well. We've gotten nerd out on that. I've learned some stuff. We've gotten the same thing with pedals. And so I want to talk about cycling shoes. And we opened up. Right. Kind of talking about our own shoes. I just shared mine, which as I talked about, I have a boa dial toward the front. I have a strap towards the top. I'm actually thinking about getting a cheaper pair that just has a strap and it's just easier to put on for short course racing. Whereas this has like two steps, right? Cause I'm strapping it. I'm tightening the boa dial. Um, but. But just in general, for our triathletes listening today, as they're thinking about, you know, if you're using a platform pedal, we talked about that. That's a perfectly acceptable way to race triathlon. It's usually a lot of people's entry point into the sport. You can have a platform pedal that you just wear your running shoes really great in transition. Right? You just roll in the transition, you hop off your bike, you rack your bike, you start running, you're already in your running shoes. But for folks who Want to make that jump to a cycling shoe coach Ben, what makes other cycling shoes better than the others? What should they be looking for in their cycling shoes?
Ben Sommerville: I think beyond the very, very obvious benefits for a proper cycling shoe and or a proper triathlon shoe, whether it's the type of adjustment, whether it's a Velcro strap, a small one, big one, multiple the loops at the heel to make it easier to get on the thing. For me, and I'm going to use a story from an athlete I worked with recently. It's all about width of the shoe. And every person's different. Every shoe's different. And, you know, this athlete has typically quite wide feet. Not that we really realized. And so to get a shoe that was comfortable from a width point of view, they had to buy a shoe that was a size and a half too long. And so what that was causing an issue with when they were then moving to a TT bike, this was all discovered through a TT bike fit, was that there was no power transfer, especially as they were further across the bottom bracket. The foot was slipping around in the shoe because of all the angles completely changed. And so the bike fitter was like, what on earth are you doing with a size, a pair of shoes that is a size and a half too big? And we were like, well, because we needed the width, because this person's got slightly wider feet. And so the minute he was like, okay, let's try this brand. And because now more and more, some of the bigger brands and some of the smaller brands are offering the same type of shoe, whether that's a road cycling of all budget levels, different materials, different purposes, they're doing a narrow fit, they're doing a standard fit, and they're doing a wide fit. So that everybody, regardless of like, let's say the topography of their foot is catered for. And so the minute we put this person in a wide fit shoe, they went from a Shimano shoe to a lake shoe. It's probably not a brand many people have heard of. It's certainly quite popular here in Europe. But lake are the kind of the big ones to go straight in with a wide fit shoe. And they've been able to go back down a size and a half to the proper size of feet that they are wide shoe. And it makes an incredible difference. I'm the exact opposite. And so I've got very, very narrow feet. And so my shoe choice is all about not necessarily looking at the retention systems or the cleat compatibility, because that's quite bog Standard. My concern is, are they going to be narrow enough for my feet? And so when I talk with athletes, I go, right, have you got narrow feet? Have you got sort of normal feet, you know, quote unquote, or have you got slightly wider feet? And then that dictates where we look for brand first and go, who's got the best option for you? And then we look at budget, then we look at the purpose, whether it's a road shoe that needs to be light and ventilated, or whether it needs to be thick and warm and durable, or whether it's a triathlon shoe for longer distances. So again, it needs to be light and ventilated, but very durable as opposed to a short course triathlon shoe, which is typically not very much to them. Very ventilated, one big strap and a nice loop. And so, yeah, it's a bit niche, but I always look. Now, after these last couple of experiences, what about the width of the shoe first? It makes a huge difference.
Andrew Harley: Yeah. So, Ben, it's fit, it's prioritizing fit and then considering the features, right?
Ben Sommerville: Yes. Yeah. Function over form is the easiest way to put it.
Andrew Harley: I love that mindset. You know, if you order a pair, if you're in a bike shop trying on pairs, if it doesn't fit your foot, doesn't matter what color it is, doesn't matter if it has the right foot, the right features at the right, right price point, it's gotta fit your foot. And then from there, which I think it's really knowing what brand fits your foot well, then you can start looking at the features and the price points. So, so Jeff, what are some of the features we might see on different shoes that make them function differently for different kind of use cases on what kind of riding you're doing?
Jeff Raines: Yeah, yeah, I. My order of operations is comfort, stiffness and then weight. Right. And so stiffness would, would, would be the first answer to your question there. You know, do you, do you want a plastic bottom, a carbon fiber bottom that's going to obviously jump up 100 to $200 right there. But the reason why most bike shoes are narrower is because you want a stiffer, Right. Tighter feel. The boa and the two or two or three strap Velcro systems will allow a snugger fit from toe to heel. Right. And so that's typically for short course time trial or courses that are kind of straight and narrow. Right. Not a technical type course.
Ben Sommerville: Okay.
Jeff Raines: Because you want that power transfer. But for someone like me, in the comfort and what Ben Said I like a wider toe box. I like my foot to splay out a little bit inside of the shoe. Right. And really, really feel that cleat and that, that pressure better. And so I like a toe box that I personally don't like the BOA system myself. I like a looser fitting toe box especially. So I like the one big velcro strap a little bit over my instep, but I like my toes to spread out. Now I also, I will bike an Iron man sockless barefoot inside the shoe.
Andrew Harley: Yeah.
Jeff Raines: So I like that, I like that mesh upper. I like something that on that upstroke, I'm not hitting a seam or something like that. So I like a big mesh, open, wider toe box. That's comfort first. Stiffness is second. Right. And then the weight of the shoe is something that if, if you're gonna be in a hot environment, it's going to be very sweaty and that shoe is going very heavy. We, we all swell when we work out. We bike and run. Right. Two hours into a workout, as we heat up, our, our feet swell. So, so however tight you put that shoe right coming out of T1, that shoe is only going to get tighter the longer that you ride. Okay. And so something that you could easily adjust mid ride. I don't want to adjust three different straps. That's why the bow is actually really nice. You can just turn that dial and kind of the whole foot alleviates a little pressure. So it's, it's personal preference and it, it depends. But comfort first and then stiffness and weight. And that's what's going to largely dictate price as well.
Andrew Harley: Yeah. And my, my first pair. So it's, it's really funny in, in my 11 years to date, the day we recorded, I've been a triathlete now for 11 years. In that time, I cannot tell you how many run shoes I've gone through. Right? I mean two, two, three or four a season, depending on how much, you know, how much racing I'm doing each season. I've had three different pair of cycling shoes in that same time. How often do we need to be replacing these things or upgrading these things? Can we just buy a pair and if we like them, just roll with them indefinitely? Do we need to replace these a little more often than I'm doing because they wear out like running shoes do? Coach Ben, what are your thoughts on this? How often should we be updating or replacing or cycling shoes?
Ben Sommerville: This is the most difficult question you've asked me. I will admit that straight away. Because I have been guilty of probably not replacing my cycling shoes as often as I should be. I'm a creature of habit. I liked my previous pair of shoes and I probably use them for two or three years longer than I should have. And by default, cycling shoes are a bit more durable in the way that they're constructed. And obviously we're not running around putting a lot of impact and load through them like we do with running shoes. So the durability and sort of the wear and tear is slightly different. But we have to consider that the riding environments, we do sometimes get very sweaty, dirty, you know, cold, wet, all of that stuff. Certainly here in UK and Europe, if you're riding your summer shoes during the winter, they're going to be severely worn out as a result. And so a rough guide, I would say, you know, separate to look at your cleats every six months, probably look at the condition of your road cycling shoes and your triathlon shoes probably every two years, and then just make a probably an educated guess. It's really hard for me to say without looking at someone's shoe and understanding from their experience how their foot is feeling, because more often than not, you just don't realize that the insole or the walls of the shoe, like the leather or the sort of the plastic in it, is just kind of getting worn down. I didn't notice in my last pair of shoes until I then put on a new pair of shoes and I was like, oh, I can actually feel the bottom of the shoe in the arch of my foot. Is this how it's meant to feel? And the bike fitter was like, like, yes. Are you saying that your previous shoes, you couldn't feel the bottom of the shoe? I said, yeah. And when we looked at it, the complete sole of the shoe had collapsed completely flat. There was no support for my foot. And as a result, you're just not going to be able to transfer power correctly. And as a result, I was risking injury. You know, thank goodness I didn't actually cause myself any harm as a result of using worn shoes. But just look at those sort of things. Obviously, holes, scratches, tears, anything that might impact the safety of that shoe, specifically in sort of the plastic or carbon plate in the bottom of a shoe, if that looks noticeably sort of compromised or cracked, or your toe sticking out of the front, if you're on a group ride and you're about to drop a Watt bomb to win the sign sprint, if you've got a shoe that isn't necessarily safe to hold your foot it's probably time to change it. And so simple little things, common sense, things like that are the most obvious. If you look after your shoes, sometimes you can get away with using them for a good year or so before any issues. And so just a good rough guide, have a look at them every one to two years just to make sure. And then again, I keep going back to this. It sounds really lazy. Go to your bike shop if you've got one nearby. Ask a trusted friend or a cyclist who knows a bit more than you. Just say, look at my shoes. Do you think I should change them? Because we can't expect ourselves to know everything. We're not all experts, even us as coaches, we don't know everything. So just use a bit of common sense and just prioritize safety. Of course, you know, and as always, we want to keep our shoes looking shiny. So just look after your shoes as well.
Andrew Harley: Coach Jeff, anything to add there?
Jeff Raines: I think the real answer, and we're all thinking this, you buy a new pair of shoes every time you change the color of your new race kit. Because you gotta match a race kit. That's the, that's the real answer. Yeah, I would say that when, when the stiffness wears out in your shoe, that's. Or the mesh, you start to rip out of that mesh. Or if you have a BOA system and you see that string system in the boa is starting to fray a little, it's probably time to get a new shoe. You don't want that thing to rip mid race. But to answer your original question, I think you can have one bike shoe for indoor outdoor travel, racing, training, all the things. But you're going to probably need to replace it. Like Ben said, every two years, two to three years maybe. But I change the cleat on the bottom of the shoe. I train on it six to nine months for the majority of the season. Then I might put a new cleat on a month or two out of that a race. So you're going to change the cleats once or twice per year on that shoe. Doing that, two to three years, that's probably a good sign.
Andrew Harley: Great.
Jeff Raines: But the last thing is I have my 400 shoe carbon plate, very lightweight. It's an entire boa system. I use that indoors Tuesdays when I really want to crank out watts or maybe a sprint. Try sometimes an Olympic. But then I use that middle tiered shoe, just that one big Velcro with the open mesh toe box for long course and comfort. Right. And easier to get in and out. And so I rotate two or three bike shoes and that might last you five or six years.
Andrew Harley: Yeah, really, really great points, Jeff. And, and thank you for calling out your cleats. Wear will wear out faster than your shoes, so don't expect your cleats to last as long as your shoes. Please, please replace those every so often, you know, even annually, even though your shoes are still good to go. Final question I'm going to ask and then we're going to kick it over to Vanessa for our coach cooldown tip of the week. What do we think about. I see certain shoes Bond cycling is one of them, where they advertise the arrow properties of the shoe. And, and everybody's looking for free watts. Everybody's trying to be as arrow as can be. Especially the longer you go that. That's the more it matters. You're out there for a long time and you'll see the pros like, they have these really arrow shoes. They're probably paying a lot of money for them. I think they're probably harder to get your foot in. But how much does the aero properties of a shoe matter in our training and racing? Or is that more just a consideration for folks that are trying to qualify for Kona or become a pro or win a race? Uh, Ben, what do you think?
Ben Sommerville: I. I think ultimately there's going to be a difference. It's probably quite marginal. And so if you've got the budget and you want to spend that money and get those fancier pieces of gear, that they're probably more aero, they might be lighter, you know, better stiffness and things like that. But I wouldn't feel any pressure for people who are not necessarily trying to be as competitive to feel like they should buy things like, to that degree because, you know, over a shorter distance event, they're not going to make a huge amount of difference. Over a long distance event, they may add up to a few minutes, a handful of minutes, which could be, you know, quite a lot. If you're certainly looking, you know, over those longer distances to place in your age group. But if you're, if you're realistically not trying to achieve a particular place in your age group or a particular time, you're just wanting to finish and have that challenge, then I wouldn't put any pressure on anybody. They of course make a difference, but I really don't think they make that much difference. Where it has to then take up your time and energy in making the decision as part of your training preparation do. I don't I have this bit of kit, I think, get the fundamentals right, a good bike fit, a good comfortable and effective pair of shoes that you're able to wear for the duration of whatever your race is. And that should just about do you.
Announcer: Great set, everyone. Let's cool down.
Cool Down
Vanessa Ronksley: Well, hello there, everyone. It's Vanessa here, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. I remember way back when I first started with TriDot, there was this athlete who caught my eye on the socials and I couldn't wait to meet her. And here she is, she's on the cool down. We have coach Cari Lubinow here with me today to share a super awesome coach cooldown tip. Now, by day, Cari is a speech language pathologist who specializes in pediatric feeding and swallowing. But in the wee hours of the morning, Cari is a rock star triathlete who has raced in Kona at the world Championships and will be racing in Australia in October for the world triathlon age group finals for sprint and Olympic distance. Cari has an extensive coaching background at the collegiate level in synchronized swimming. Cari is a TriDot Pool School instructor and has been coaching with TriDot since, since 2024. Welcome to the cool down, Cari.
Cari Lubenow: I'm so thrilled to be here, Vanessa, and to get to see you today. This is wonderful.
Vanessa Ronksley: From your synchronized swimming background, you've had a lot of pool training and so I want to know if you can tell us about the best. And by best, I obviously mean the most challenging swim session you've ever done when you were training for artistic swimming at college.
Cari Lubenow: Yeah. So in college doing artistic swimming, we had a lot of really hard sessions. A couple that kind of spring to mind. Just like triathletes, we loved using our pool tools, but ours looked a little bit different. And one of them that comes to mind is we actually trained with weight belts. So we would swim with like weight belts around our waist, doing different skills or doing our routines to work on our strength and to work on height in the water. And then when you take the weight belt off, you're much higher in the water. So that was always a fun time, you know, adding on an extra 15 pounds of weight in the middle of a workout. And then we also did a lot of breath training because as a synchronized swimmer, you were spending prolonged times under the water holding your breath while you're doing different parts of the routine or different figures. And so lots of underwater training. One thing we used to do was underwaters at the end of practice, so we'd be in the pool for two or three hours. And then the very last thing in the practice is we would do underwaters for distance. So you were expected to do at least two lengths of the pool and then try and cap off what more you could pull off beyond that on one breath. Or if our coaches were feeling a little creative for the day, we had access to a lazy river that they chose to not make lazy for us, and we would swim laps against the current underwater.
Vanessa Ronksley: You are the perfect person then to deliver a swim tip for our listeners. So what, what do you have for us today?
Cari Lubenow: Yeah, so coming from a swimming background and spending lots of time in the pool, I think one thing that's super helpful is regularly incorporating strokes besides freestyle into your training. In particular, I think it's super helpful to add some backstroke and some breath breaststroke into your workouts in some capacity. And there's a few different reasons why that's really helpful. Firstly, it's going to help you vary the stimuli and your movement patterns in the water. So backstroke, as a synchronized swimmer, we used all the time to work on opening up our chest and our shoulders. As triathletes, we spend a lot of time in aero. We spend a lot of time just as humans, at our desks, on our computers, sitting in our cars. And so backstroke is going to help open you up, it's going to help you breathe more efficiently and you're just working on other muscle groups. We also know as triathletes, we spend a lot of time moving in the sagittal plane. And so breaststroke is really great to add into the mix because it allows you to move on other planes of motion. And then varying the stimuli is just going to make your swim more fun and more engaging and keep you entertained while you're in the water for those longer swims. Another great thing about swing those other strokes is it gives you opportunities for feedback on propulsion. Right. So one thing I love in backstroke is you get really good feeling along your forearm about grabbing the water. So that's really nice. I think breaststroke, you get a good sense of your pull and your grasp on the water. And I like to think about swimming as you communicating with the water back and forth. And so this just adds a little bit more depth and variability into your ability to communicate to the water how you want it to move you. And then finally, while most of us hopefully on the race course are out there, you know, swimming freestyle and crushing it, the many of us may need to reach into our back pockets and pull out one of these strokes as sort of an emergency stroke when something goes awry on the race course. So for instance, you get kicked in the face, you get a bunch of water in your goggles. Well, flipping over onto your back and being comfortable to then, you know, adjust your goggles is going to be, you know, great. If you've already worked on some of that backstroke in your workouts or you get way off course, you need to kind of do a few strokes with your head up or you're having a panic attack and need to kind of catch your breath. Breaststroke is going to be your best friend. Having those strokes in your repertoire and being comfortable and confident with them is going to allow you to maintain your body on the surface of the water and continue that forward propulsion, getting you to that finish line a little bit faster even when something goes wrong.
Announcer: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot Podcast with your triathlon crew for more great tri content and community. Connect with us on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today. TriDot, the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.
