The Truth About the IRONMAN Time Commitment

TriDot Podcast Episode 280

The Truth About the IRONMAN Time Commitment

Announcer: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together. Together.

Andrew Harley: Hey everybody. Welcome to the TriDot podcast. Very excited for today's topic. I've got two of our standout coaches on the show to address the question of how much time does it take to train for an IRONMAN? People think all sorts of stuff, you see all sorts of stuff, people do all sorts of stuff. And we're here to find out how much time does it take? How should you be spending that time? And kind of debunk some of the myths around training hours as it pertains to long distance racing. The two coaches I have have here to talk about this. The first one is Michellie Jones. She is an IRONMAN World Champion, an Olympic silver medalist, an IRONMAN U Master Coach and the founder and head coach of Giddy Up Multi Sport coaching. I also have Jeff Raines. Jeff was a D1 collegiate runner. He is a Master of Science in Exercise Physiology. He's been a TriDot coach since 2015 and he is an IRONMAN U subject matter expert presenting in the IRONMAN U course courses to IRONMAN U coaches. Very excited to have both of you. Welcome so much to the show. Michellie, thank you.

Michellie Jones: It's an honor to be here. As usual.

Andrew Harley: Jeff, good to see you.

Jeff Raines: Hey, likewise, Andrew, let's do this. Excited for today's topic?

Andrew Harley: Well, I am Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack. As always, we'll start up with our warmup question before getting into our main set. Conversation about how much time it takes to train for IRONMAN. And then we'll cool down by hearing our coach cool down. Tip of the week. This week, Michellie Jones will bring us an extra training tip at the end of the show. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Announcer: Time to warm up. Let's get moving.

Andrew Harley: As nice and fun and outgoing as triathletes are, you know, we're just a wonderful bunch for our friends and family. You know, I think there's gotta be something in our triathloning that makes us maybe annoying, maybe a little quirky, maybe a little different from our non-triathlete peers. So my question today for our warmup question is what part of Your triathlon habits, your triathloning, so to speak, do your friends and family find to be the most quirky and, or annoying? Jeff Raines, what is this answer for you?

Jeff Raines; Ah, good question. Good question. You know, I, I, I think from experience actually heard this from a friend. It's probably all the groaning when I stand up or sit down. I'm always like, oh, they're just so.

Andrew Harley: What is wrong with this guy?

Jeff Raines: No, and I'll, you know, I, I think actually I'll say probably all the lingo that we have in the sport that they just don't understand. Like brick, OWS, transition wetsuit, stripper, peeler, personal needs, you know, Watts per kilo, FTP, tubeless, butyl, Di2. Like, it's a whole other language. Right?

Andrew Harley: Yep. So, so hearing you slip in and out of that just kind of, kind of drives them a little nuts. A little bonkers sometimes. Yeah, sure. Michellie, what does this answer for you? What, what about your experience in the sport kind of drives your, your peers a little crazy?

Michellie Jones: Well, you know, I simply can't believe that my friends and my family don't want to know my, my what's. And my splits.

Andrew Harley: Right.

Michellie Jones: What heart rate. I don't understand why they don't want to hear about all that. So. No, it is one of those things that if you're not in it, it's sort of hard to, like, get as excited as we do as athletes. But, you know, that's the fun part. Right. It's like challenging yourself sometimes not to talk about triathlon.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: You know, but it's when you are so passionate and I mean, I totally get it. I, I've been in love with triathlon for a long time.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, it's the, it's the quiet. Like, it's a typical, you know, you don't have to guess who the IRONMAN in the room is. They're going to tell you that they're an IRONMAN. Right? Like the classic joke. But yeah.

Jeff Raines: Yeah.

Andrew Harley: Just.

Michellie Jones: Yeah.

Andrew Harley: You bump into a friend and. Hey, how's your day going? Great. My FTP is up to 263. Uh, yeah, they, they don't, they don't care like you do, or they don't get excited about it. Yeah, sure. Um, This question for me, I immediately go to my, my wife. My wife laments the fact that 96% of the shoes that I own are running shoes. And she's like, can you. And then I'm, I'm always like, you know, if, if I'm just scrolling the phone like Shoe shopping. I'm shoe shopping for more running shoes. And she's like, can you buy like a nice pair of like go out to dinner shoes? Like, you know, you have one of those and you have 18 pair of running shoes. And so that's, I think that's the quirk of being a triathlete that gets to her the most is just like how much of my wardrobe and particularly my shoe collection is centered around running shoes. And she's just, I want to go to dinner and have you, like not look like a triathlete for once.

Jeff Raines: You could wear Hokas to church, right? If they're black.

Michellie Jones: Yes. They just released Hoka. Just released like a boat shoe, you know, with a leather upper.

Andrew Harley: Oh, I saw that. Yeah.

Michellie Jones: You can still be wearing your running shoes.

Andrew Harley: There's the answer.

Michellie Jones: But they're gonna look like they're. They're not quite running shoes. The bottom's like a HOKA run sole and then the top is like a nice leather. So you're all set.

Andrew Harley: Now I just gotta pull up their website and boom, like, problem solved. I'm buying a pair of running shoes. But they're not a pair of running shoes. Yeah, I absolutely love it.

Michellie Jones: So they're cheaper than carbon fiber run shoes.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Well, we, as always are going to throw this warm up question out to the TriDot podcast community. Make sure you're either in the I am TriDot Facebook group or make sure you're in the TriDot community hub. That's where we post this question and we want to know from you what quirk of yours being a triathlete? What habit of yours being a triathlete do your friends and family find maybe just a little different, obnoxious, Just grades them the wrong way. We heard some great answers here from Jeff Michellie and myself. Can't wait to see what you have to say.

Announcer: On to the main set going in three, two, one.

Andrew Harley: All right, onto our main set topic. Very excited to pick Michellie and Jeff's brain on how many hours does it actually take to take on IRONMAN? What's the low end of that range? What's the high end? Overachieving into that range? And what should we expect out of an IRONMAN and IRONMAN 70.3 training cycle. And I want to start off with this first question to you guys as our coaches. There's this notion, I think across the board, both for endurance sports, just for athletes casually in sports that hear about what an IRONMAN is. There's this notion that training for an IRONMAN has to take over your life. The classic joke is if you're not borderline on the verge of getting divorced by race day, you didn't train enough. And I've always hated that joke because I just, I felt like it's so untrue. But, but that's a real notion, that's a real impression that people have and I think it even prevents some people from taking that leap from being a short course athlete to a long course athlete or from jumping from being a marathoner to a IRONMAN. Talk to us about this. Coach Michellie, what would you say to people who think, man, IRONMAN training, it's going to take over your life?

Michellie Jones: And I think that's definitely, a lot of people do that and I think it's definitely not the approach that is, that's going to support good results anyway. I think everything in moderation and it's like I always, from the start, my coach originally was like short and sweet. It's like that, you know, let's make use of getting fast before you actually go long. And I think that's why I love like TriDot’s philosophy. It's, it's spot on and it's like, you know, you've got to commit to how many hours realistically fits into everything else that you have in your life. And I think that's the first step that you take and it really doesn't take as much time as you think. And you know, making like that training like, like arrangement around your family, if you have family or around your work commitments, it's like, you know, utilize the time you have in an effective way. So if you only have 10 hours to train in a week, utilize those in the way that you're going to get the biggest bang for the buck. So you know, you're going to do some intensity when you can. And then yeah, you still got to do those longer days but it's not week after week. I think this is the biggest catch is you get so many athletes that think they have to ride five and six hours every single weekend and you do not have to do that. You definitely do not have to do that. So it doesn't have to take over your life. It's like it doesn't have this. You know, some people have more time than others but you know, work with what's reasonable for you. Not what you hear, not what you see. I think one of the biggest things when I was coming across to IRONMAN was always like, oh my goodness, I'd see all these athletes doing all this Training and I'm like what are you doing? Just coming from a short course background, it was like why do you need to do that much training? And yeah, there is a level of training you have to do but it's a lot less than we're led to believe.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Michellie, just looking at your career, right, Going from being the top, the top short course athlete in the world in your prime racing days to jumping up to IRONMAN and winning, right? Winning an IRONMAN world championship you firsthand saw, you know, working on your speed, working on shorter and stronger before you took it longer distance really served you well. And like you mentioned, that's kind of, that's TriDots, not even training philosophy. That's what the science and the data tells us is the best way to train for IRONMAN. And now you see many, you know, pros, IRONMAN pros following suit and kind of realizing that. But Jeff, kind of same question to you. Just in your experience and all the age groupers you coach when an athlete comes to you and they're thinking about IRONMAN, they're thinking about IRONMAN 70.3, kind of taking that middle and long distance plunge but they're worried about how much time they think it's going to take them to train. What do you tell them?

Jeff Raines: You know, I love, you know, having Michellie's perspective from being the best in the world at short or course, right. Olympic distance and then full IRONMAN. I'm going to kind of take a twist to, to maybe the, the everyday athlete. My wife and I are both triathletes. We both are training right now currently for full IRONMAN distance races. We have three little kids for four, six and eight years old and if we can do it successfully and effectively then anyone can. So I'm going to kind of come at it from that perspective. And then also like you said, speaking with my athletes day to day. So I'll just say just like anything to do it well you've got to be all in, right? You can't kind of halfway train for an IRONMAN. And that's that stigma you're talking about. Like I know that if I sign up for this it's a big commitment and I have to go all in and it's going to take over my life, right. I'll just say that there's a healthy obsession and then there's a non healthy obsession, right. We kind of get addicted to it all. You know, it doesn't have to take over your life but it is a big commitment and endeavor. So you have to set boundaries. You also have to have the approval and support of your friends and family along the journey. So you need to have that conversation before you commit. But we as athletes also have to respect the boundaries of family time and our jobs and relationships. And the warm up question, you know, most people in our lives have no idea what we're doing, so we have to set those boundaries. We can't let the sport interfere with that quality time. It's easy to neglect or cut into that. Let's say family time and so we can't be lazy there. I'll say that and then I'll end, I guess with, you know, you can train for an IRONMAN 70.3 and, or a full IRONMAN and still have time for those other things and succeed. You just have to prepare well. You have to be intentional. Like Michellie said, use your time wisely and using a quality over quantity approach for sure. And that training volume.

Andrew Harley: Yep.  If your answer to the warmup question today is my friends and family always lament how much I'm training and how they never see me, probably you're probably doing it wrong. That's a really good point, Jeff. So, so Jeff, talk to us about this. For Both full distance 140.6 and for a half, you know, middle distance 70.3. What, what's kind of the, the typical range an athlete might see for training hours if done appropriately. Right. I mean there's certainly people that go, that go bonkers with it and there's people that probably show up to the start line under prepared. But, but for a solid like correctly done training cycle, what, what, what hour commitment should an athlete expect to see?

Jeff Raines: You know, that's, that's the question that a lot of we'll say newbies, newbies to long course will ask first. It's a great question though. I had that same question and, and the beauty of what TriDot has done and what the data shows and 17 is that you actually, you know, that, that, that whole stigma of, of the industry, let's say it has actually changed and, and we're pioneering that and disrupting that in a good way. And to train for a half or full for most of the year or season, let's say, I would say that 70 to 80% of your training season is actually probably way, way, way less hours per week than you would think. Right. And so there's definitely like a, you know, a quality over quantity aspect. Definitely. But there's also an it depends aspect. So the, the answer is how much stamina are you going to need closer to race day? Right. And so we do a fast before far, strong before long. Right? That's what the data shows. That's where the industry is, is leading. And so for the developmental phase, which is the majority of your season, it's shorter, faster, right? It's shorter workouts, maybe hour, hour, 15 or less. That could be for your first six months of the training year, but you might be doing a little bit more quality inside of those sessions, quality being kind of that zone 3 intensity or higher. So anything with a little bit of intensity inside. So long story short, you know, some and Most will train 7 to 10 hours or less per week. You're kind of thinking, oh, hourish a day on average for almost the whole season. Then as you get closer to race day, we call that a race prep, or I call it the stamina phase, where we've spent so much of the year raising the long tent pole, which is your functional threshold.

Andrew Harley: Getting stronger. Yeah, getting stronger, getting stronger, getting stronger.

Jeff Raines: Because you can only race at a percentage of that set strength or threshold. Right? And so what we do towards the end is we start ramping up the volume or stamina. So you might see a little less quality inside of the day to day sessions, but your long run and your long rides are ramping up. So I would say 7 to 10 for most of the year and you might ramp up to 10 or 15 for half iron, and you might ramp up to 12 to 20ish for full IRONMAN. But it depends, are you low standard, high kind of what Michellie said, or do you need a day or two off? So what time commitment you do have, but also how much training stress can you handle per week? That's the real answer, right? And as you develop and as you get stronger, you can handle more and more of that. So you can go longer or add more hours to your week.

Andrew Harley: Michellie, you brought Giddy Up Multi Sport over to TriDot about two years ago with all of your athletes. And so as your athletes were making kind of that switch to seeing how TriDot generates their training plan leading up to these long events, were they a little surprised by the volume they were seeing and the hours they were seeing? And what did Coach Michellie have to do to educate her team on what was happening with their volume? And yes, you will be ready for race day.

Michellie Jones: You know, the education process for my athletes was very easy because I've always believed in this philosophy. And you know, TriDot now just like is like, oh, you know, we have the science and we got the proof to back up that, you know, you don't have to do ridiculous amount of training. I mean, you know, the pros are a little bit different. I mean, even though I sometimes think, whoa, imagine how they would go if they did a little less of that. But, you know, the training has changed a lot over the years and, you know, we are busier athletes and we are busier doing everything and trying to fit everything in. And. And I think that's the thing that the science is telling us, like, be, I think, like purposeful in what you're actually doing. And it's. And I think that's the only problem that I see with like seasoned IRONMAN athletes. They just caught up in that training and they become champion winners rather than champion racers. And I mean, that's the thing, they get caught. It's sort of this catch 22 because they get caught in this relationship that IRONMAN training is so addictive and they love it and they just want to go out and train, train, train, and it's like, you've got to pull them back. And I mean, for my athletes, I didn't really need to do that as much. But every year I still have the conversations with my athletes, like, you know what, it's okay to let go of all that long training. You already accomplished what you needed to do. Now it's time to get fast again. And that's the hardest thing because they're used to so many hours and then to drop them back even more because the focus changes. And I encourage them that, you know, if you want to get faster at IRONMAN, it's like you've got to cut down, you've got to give your body a chance to recover. And this is where, you know, people talk about the Norwegian method, right? The Norwegian method. All it's about is training in the right zones and doing the right amount of hard in that right zone. I mean, that's what it is. That's what lactate testing is, right? It's like telling you right there, it's like the truth serum, right? If you are not in this zone, then you're going to take more and more time to recover and then the quality is going to go down and then, you know, you're going to get lack of sleep, you're going to get the night sweats, you're not going to recover. And it's like, you know, it's changing the philosophy of what you can actually do to still have, you know, if you're more of an elite athlete to still have that high performance. And if you, you're a first time IRONMAN athlete, like the commitment isn't as crazy as people think. And I think that's why TriDot is so much in front of the forefront of getting more athletes involved because the science is telling us like, you don't have to do this crazy stuff. It's not going to help your performance at all. We want it to be fun.

Andrew Harley: So yeah, yeah, yeah, it should be fun and not a slogan.

Michellie Jones: And TriDot makes it fun. Right. There's so many things that motivate you. It's like, you know, after every workout, you know, you're getting graded, but in a fun way. Right. And so that encourages the athletes to like, want to get those unicorns.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: You know, it's, it's such a fun gamification that I love about TriDot. And you know, straight away you can say to your athlete, well, just take a look at your score. Like you already know how well you did and if you followed the program and you know that's the secret. Right? The secret to doing well in anything is consistency.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I love Michellie, you pointing out just that there, there are athletes in the sport, there's folks in the sport that just love the training. You know, they love showing up to work on Monday morning and telling the office that they wrote eight hours, you know, on Saturday and then ran four hours on Sunday. And you know, when I joined TriDot and I started training with it myself, I came over at the same time as three of my training buddies. All four of us just like found, found the tried out ads on, on Facebook and clicked it. What is this? Started talking about it on the next group ride. And so four of us started doing training at the same time and three of the four of us were like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Look how much stronger I'm getting. Look at how much faster I'm getting. And we stuck with it. And there was one guy, one of my training buddies, he just could not wrap his head around the volume he was seeing. And he's like I and he. And at the end of the day, he wanted to show up to the office on Monday and talk about how long he trained. And he couldn't do that with tried out because it was giving him like what he needed and not what just, you know, endless miles and endless whatever. And so I love you kind of pointing that out that there just are some people that are that way and yeah, it's, it's to their detriment, to be honest, a little bit. But to, to kind of help in this conversation of how many hours should it take? Like, like Jeff kind of said, it's going to depend on who you are, what your race instances, what, what your finish time is going to be. Because what tried out does, if it sees that your fitness, your bike leg is going to be six hours for an IRONMAN or three hours for a half IRONMAN, what, what it's got to do is it's got to build your stamina to last that long in that discipline. Um, and so for, you know, for, for, for Jeff, who's a stronger cyclist than me, Jeff's longest bike rides aren't gonna be as long as my long bike rides. Cause I need more time on the bike. Cause I'm gonna be out on the bike longer on race day. So it is very individual to the athlete, but in general it's really fascinating. Like, like for, for the race prep phase, which is usually around four months. The first two months of that. Yeah, it's seven to ten hours a week because it's just, it's almost roughly an hour per day, right. Whether you're swimming, whether you're biking, whether you're running, give or take 15, 20 minutes. And then once you start getting closer to race day, two months out, one month out, that's where tried out starts building your stamina. And so, you know, for. You start seeing it in the bikes and runs, right? Your one hour bikes, start going to an hour and a half, start going to two hours, start going to two and a half hours, start going to three hours. So yeah, those last two months leading up to race day, the volume does go, go up and the long bikes get longer. And that's where it starts going from seven to 10 hours to more like 10 to 15 hours. But it's still extremely manageable and not nearly as intimidating as I think a lot of people think it's going to be. And Michellie, I think the other time based question I see athletes asking, you know, now that we've kind of addressed how many hours it takes, answer not nearly as many as you think. People ask, when should they start training for these events? How far out do they need to make sure they're training to make sure they're ready for race day, what would you say to an athlete asking that question?

Michellie Jones: Well, you know, it depends what you're coming in, what level you're coming into the sport. Like if you've never done like I've got athletes who've Never done a triathlon or maybe never swam. So for them it may be a little bit of a longer process. So if you truly don't have a lot of fitness and you truly are very new to triathlon and like endurance sports, you know, it could take nine to 12 months. You know, if you're sort of what I call like an intermediate athlete, you know, you've been doing some regular training that can be cut down to like four to six months. And you know, if you are experienced, it could be three to four months. Typically when you know you are like talking to an athlete, you're like, well, what is your time frame? Because realistically it has to fit into their timeframe, but you also have to look and see what their limitations are, what they're bringing to the sport and what they're not bringing to the sport. So yeah, I mean it obviously can be a shorter program, but then it's like do their goals align with the time that they have allotted? So as a coach then I go in and go, okay, well you've told me you want to do this level. Say for example, you've never done an IRONMAN, but you know, your big goal is to qualify for the IRONMAN World Championships. And then you've got another athlete that their big goal is just to finish. I mean it's like then you really have to then go, okay, realistically, because yeah, it's not just what TriDot is going to be providing for you in training, but it's all those other aspects that are important as well to get you towards that goal. Because ultimately one thing I love about TriDot, it is going to lower the risk of injury. So that's like super important. And it's like it manages it that really well. But you know, as a coach for me coming in to oversee it, I gotta make sure that everyone is mentally and physically headed in the same direction. I think that's super important. But yeah, so for a beginner, you know, it could be longer term, nine to 12 months. Intermediate athlete, four to six months, sometimes three. Three months. Like I like to do like a minimum if I have an athlete that come in that's pretty experienced and they've been doing some, some training and racing and they've got more experience. Sometimes it's just a 12 week program, sometimes it's a 6, 16 week program. So it just depends on the athlete. So no direct answer. It's just, you know, that's why having a coach, they can help you navigate those tough questions.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, sure, absolutely. And just kind of Pointing out, Jeff was just talking about the, the race, you know, the development phase versus the race prep phase. And, and really the answer here is, you know, try it out is going to slip you into the race prep phase when it has to start building out your stamina for race day. Right. And that can, that can be anywhere from two to five, two to six months, just depending on what your projected finish time is going to be with your fitness. Uh, and so Michellie is getting at a lot of that. It, it depends on the level of the athlete. Um, Jeff, is there. Is there like, just for anybody listening who, who just is kind of jumping in the deep end and maybe has to get ready for a race pretty quick, Is there like a minimum, Jeff, that you would tell an athlete like, hey, if you're a month out from the race, like, okay, that's not enough. Maybe pick a different race. Like, what's, what would you say there?

Michellie Jones: Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Raines: I don't want to repeat anything Michellie said because she nailed the nail on the head there. I would, I'll take it a level deeper though. Let's say you have that elite or intermediate athlete, they have a great history in the sport. They have a great level of fitness existing already. So, yeah, they could do a half or full IRONMAN in three or four months if they could or should or they want to. Yeah, they could do it and they could probably do decent, right? But I would say that if, if that athlete wants to do extremely well or they want to do like a total reset, let's say, right? Like, you know, I don't want to just take 10 minutes off my IRONMAN time. I want to take an hour or, you know, whatever. Like, and then I would say that. And from my experience and working on and with TriDot since 2015, my kind of quote rule is that someone wanting to do a hard reset, let's say, or a newbie coming in and doing their first half or full, My rule is that they need to spend a minimum of five to six months in that precious developmental phase because you have to raise that long tent pole absolutely. As high as you can. You can't rush that.

Michellie Jones: You.

Jeff Raines: You can't skip that. Right. And so to see the great gains, right, Your first three months, you're going to see great gains. And then that delta, right. You know, five watt improvement on your 20 minute test might, in month five, might be a 15 watt in month one or two. And so to really see that progression, right, minimum five to six months in that precious developmental, and then like you said, Andrew, you'll probably spend three to four months-ish in that. That build phase, ramping up the volume. So I would say nine months is my answer. Half or full. Even though half IRONMAN race day is half the distance of a full, I would still say if you want the true benefits, right. Of the developmental versus that stamina phase. And we call it race prep, I call it stamina phase, minimum of six months. And then the stamina will be what it is, depending on how high you raise a long tent pole in developmental. So how well you nail the five to six months in developmental, you're allowed, right. Less stamina later on because you're going to spend less time in each discipline on race day.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. For anybody listening, you can definitely see how much our coaches respect these distances. Right. And respect how much prep it takes to really do well these distances. Because could you sign up for an IRONMAN two months out and go and race it and finish? Possibly. Possibly. But with these distances and what your body's going to go through, it's not a guarantee at that point. Right. And you might not enjoy the day. And so you can hear how much our coaches want to properly make sure that they're able to prepare athletes for these events. I am curious, Jeff and Michellie, because we've talked a little about how it can depend on what an athlete's goals are. Right. There are some athletes that just want to finish. There's some athletes that want a podium. There's some athletes that want to chase just a PR for themselves. Right. And so they, you know, they might be middle of the pack, but they want to do the best they can for themselves. Just. Just for those bragging rights, that PR that whatever. Whatever. Um, so. So on TriDot, an athlete can set, you know, low standard and high volumes. Right? And. And that's going to. For. For the swim, bike and rut. And that's going to kind of dictate how many training hours you have in each of the three disciplines. Um, Jeff, can you kind of talk about, like, what are the. Every athlete, when they join TriDot, they're put at the standard distance. Uh, and that is. Is honestly, that's going to be the best fit for most people, and that's why it's the standard amount of volume. Jeff, what are some occasions where you have seen athletes tweak that down to low volume? Maybe because they're crunched for time or gone higher, Maybe because they have a big goal. What are the occasions where you would recommend an athlete maybe consider high or low volume in any of the three disciplines.

Jeff Raines: You know, that's the million dollar question. And everybody's a little bit different, their schedules are different. You know, I have a client who's a doctor and they're in surgery every Wednesday. They will never swim, bike or run or train one second on a Wednesday. Right. And so, yeah, you mentioned the time crunched athlete. That's probably the biggest one where, where we would drop down maybe a standard volume down to a low. So maybe you'll have two bike rides a week instead of three. Things like that. You know, if someone's, you know, on the verge or onset of injury, we might bump that down. We might make Sessions More Zone 2 Focus, Cross Train illness, unique scheduling. Hey, for the next two months, I'm going to be out of the country. Right? Things like that. But like Michellie alluded to, training history and experience is a big one. What, what have they handled successfully more, more recently? You know what's really neat is the second you, you know, sync or link a device into TriDot, let's say a Garmin watch, right? It'll backfill a year or two. It sees that data, it's taking all that into account. It weights more heavily, let's say like the most recent 40 days, right. Because that's closer to your current fitness. But a lot of that is taken into account. And I'll end with this. A big one is, is to answer, this is NTS. That in TriDot, the TriDot universe, we say sometimes NTS stands for Normalized Training Stress.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, it does.

Jeff Raines: The world may know similarly, if that's a word. TSS, right, is an older model that's been out there for a while. But we factor NTS in a much deeper level than the traditional TSS. And so TriDot knows what you can handle. It's looking at your age, gender, your physiogenomics, your genetics. There's an awesome cool feature there. The environmental conditions. It takes into account discipline type, intensity levels, intensity distribution, intensity duration. We actually have a podcast, right, Andrew, the Normalized Training Stress Podcast. I think it's episode 57. That's a really good one. But what TriDot is looking at is so many deeper levels of you, the individual, and it knows what you can handle. So even if you put your volumes at low standard or high, you will only be prescribed a safe amount of intensity quality that you yourself can handle and absorb effectively and healthily.

Andrew Harley: Yep, no great point. And yeah, knowing that the low volume is there for the time crunched athletes. Yeah, that's just gonna. That's gonna make sure you're ready for race day with. Without the big time spent.

Jeff Raines: And I have to add this. Anytime an athlete wants high volume or maybe they're not working with the coach and they set their swim bike and run volumes to high, all that it's going to do is add more zone to hours or minutes to your week. Right. So. So keep that in mind. If you have time to train or you have put in a lot of hours using, you know, another entity in the world, and then you come into TriDot. Oh, man. I'm training eight less hours this week than I normally did. Right. So. So I wouldn't fill that extra time with quality because it's going to increase that training stress. So just know that high volume adds zone to safe volume.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. And that's a great point, Jeff.

Michellie Jones: Yeah, that's what I was going to say that, like. And that's where I think there's a lot of misconceptions. There's only so many times you can go hard.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: And you have to recover. It's like. And that's why try. Like, when you're looking at the scheduling, it. It does it in a way that it's optimizing that recovery. And I think that's so important. And, you know, I think if I was going to summarize, like, what. What Jeff just said, it's like, you know, it's like life events, fatigue and recovery, injury and illness and experience level. They're the. They're the questions that you've got to ask yourself as an athlete, whether you want to adjust that volume to. To basically sum up everything that. That. That Jeff just said.

Andrew Harley: Yep. No, absolutely love that. And it's. It's the. I'm blanking on what the rules call, but, like, the rule of, like, 90 10, where, like, you know, 90% or, like 10% of the time gets you 90% of the results, and the last 90% gets you the last 10. Like, when you, like, the standard volume of TriDot has, like Michellie just said, all the intensity you need, all the intensity your body can handle for the week. So if you do go up to high, it's giving you, like Jeff said, more zone two. And there's benefit in that zone, too. Your body will benefit from that. You will be a stronger, faster athlete on race day from that extra zone, too. But it's. It's just for those folks who are chasing that scotch of a percentage of improvement, because most of the improvement you're gonna get is in the standard volume. So, so great, great education there from both of our coaches on how that time is spent in training volume. Um, Michellie, I'm curious about this because in our sport, you know, there's swim, bike, run and that's, that's. We have to prepare for the swim, bike and run. That is literally the sport. That's the race. You gotta do those three things. But there, there's also other things we can do, right? There's, there's stretching, there's building strength, hitting the gym, hitting the weights. Um, there, there's time that can be spent, you know, tweaking your gear, working on your gear. You know, there, there is a time commitment to being an IRONMAN athlete that is beyond just a swim, bike and run training. How much should an athlete expect to see these kind of things hit their calendar if they're training for a big event?

Michellie Jones: Well, you know, details matter. It's like if, if you want to ensure success and consistency over a long time, there are some factors to, to consider and, but I'm, what I'm going to address straight away is like, skills. I think these are so often overlooked. TriDot pool school does a fantastic job at making you more efficient. It's like it's investing in yourself. It's like it just makes everything easier. You know, swimming is such a skill set. You invest in making sure you are doing swimming well with this, the skills that you need to do that with better efficiency, number one. Number two, on the bike, get a good bike fit. I think that is significant. It's like you're going to be on the bike for a long time. You want to be comfortable, you want to make sure that you know, you do go. And again, investing in yourself, finding a good fitter that understands triathlon and that you've got to run off the bike, but also understands your biomechanics. Because just because the pros can ride super narrow doesn't mean that an age group can do exactly the same. Yes, we can learn, we can learn from the professionals, but like, you know, we are who we are. And I think if I was going to break it down like for the run, what would I do? And that's where for me, a lot of the injuries come from. Right? So doing that strength training is. And it doesn't have to be long, just short and sweet. Knowing your strengths and your weaknesses, you know, adding that activation, making sure the glutes are firing, you know, these simple things that you can do that if you spend. And that's why TriDot like their run program is so good they get you to spend five to 10 minutes on making sure you are doing some skill development. You are doing that activation and it's so important because you spend five minutes doing that. That again is it's like winning the lottery. You're basically getting a ticket in the lottery because it's decreasing the chances of something going wrong. And then of course you know that recovery and mobility what I just talked about is so important. Nutrition, nutrition not only fuels you but it also prevents injury. And I think that's people think of fueling more as like gas in the tank but it's also an injury prevention thing as well. And then of course that mental prep like for me it's such a key to everything because all those thoughts that go through your head every single day right when you, the first thing you do when you wake up. I could sleep in. You know it's like that chimp brain is always telling you not to do something and it's like, doesn't mean you have to listen to it but it's like that mental prep, that visualization, that mindset, handling those everyday challenges. And I think one thing that people forget, it's like what goes on in my head is going on in your head and everyone else's head. And we're all thinking the same thing when we're starting this process. It's like that imposter syndrome pops up a lot when people are talking about IRONMAN. It's like taking that first step is sometimes the hardest. But yeah training isn't just about logging in the miles. It's that that full body and that mind preparation and it doesn't have to take much. I might and this is one of another reasons why I love TriDot. It's like I'm always about short and sweet. A little bit is better than nothing at all.

Andrew Harley: For me one of the biggest benefits I've seen in having a coach I for years I did my first couple 70.3s without a coach for a long time I didn't have a one to one coach. It just wasn't in the budget for me. And when I was able to upgrade to having a coach plus the tried out training to me one of the biggest benefits before having a coach a lot of these things you're talking about, you know what my strength training routine should look like, what my nutrition approaching big workouts should look like, getting the bike ready and how should I place things on the bike for me and a lot of these things are things that I just toyed with. And I lost time to toying with these things to try to dial these things in, to try to get them right and kind of guess that, well, maybe if I do this on this workout. Nope, that didn't work. Let me tweak it for the next workout. And now having a coach say, hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you think? And the coach is like, yeah, don't do that. It doesn't work because of X, Y and Z. Maybe do it this way. And it's like, oh, man, that was amazing. Thank you so much. And so there's a monetary investment in having a coach, right? But if that's in the budget for somebody, for me, it saves me a lot of time in trial and error and things for myself for these big races, right? So in a podcast episode talking about the time commitment of IRONMAN Jeff, Michellie, what role do you think a coach can play in helping us maximize our time getting ready for these events?

Jeff Raines: Jeff, you know, like Michellie said, there are so many technical aspects of this sport, right. And she listed just a handful of the plethora of things. And so, you know, I would say this, that, you know, I've had athletes that come to me. Let's say I have 17 hours a week to train. Write me a training plan for 17 hours. You know, let's do this thing, right? Well, I might say, hey, that's great. Let's have the training 10 to 12 hours, right? Let's set everything up and try it out. Let's get it all set up. But awesome. You got five extra hours in the week now instead of filling that with, you know, bonus miles or junk miles even, and then the onset of injury. And we talked about, right, you know, overuse injury, like Michellie was kind of alluding to is the number one injury in. In triathlon is an overuse injury. And so I would say, all right, now we have five hours in the week to make you faster on race day, honing in on technical aspects of the sport.

Andrew Harley: Wow.

Jeff Raines: I might want you to listen to two podcasts a week, right? On these two topics. I'll. I'll give them to you, right? So you're becoming a better athlete that way. Hey, let's go spend the other three hours getting a bike fit, right? And then next week, we got five new hours to do, right? Maybe we're going to add an extra hour of mobility before we focus on stability, right? Things like that. So the technical aspects of the sport are a big reason why you Need a coach. There's so many little things there that you need guidance. Well, what do I do now? I'm two months out. Well, if they ask that same question nine months out, those technical aspects might change a little bit. And the things that I quote, prescribe in those extra hours per week. Right. And so, so there's, there's a number of things that the coach can, can, can play there, and I'll end with this, is that there's been kind of a stigma in the coaching world that, that, that the coaches have to have this just, just masterpiece kind of secret sauce training plan. And so much of the time is spent on that masterpiece plan. And, and you know, I would argue now that with, with, with, with TriDot, so much time is now open for these bigger aspects of the sport. You know, the, the athlete wants the coach. They want your personality, they want your help, they want your guidance, not only in the training plan but, but in this bigger piece that is the technical aspect of the sport.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, really great point that for, for folks that are coming to TriDot and seeing the volume and saying, whoa, where's all the training I should be doing? Cool. If you have those hours and you want to use those hours, there's, there's a lot of different ways to use those hours instead of endless miles that aren't benefiting you. Really, really cool point there, Jeff. Coach Michellie, same question over to you. As you're working with your athletes. What, what do you, what role do you think a coach plays in helping us maximize our precious training time, getting ready for these big events?

Michellie Jones: I've been in this sport for a long time, racing and coaching, and I, I even like, don't. I coach myself a lot. But then I also have a team that I will like, throw questions at. Like, and you know, it's funny because I always test TriDot. I'm like, okay, because I followed the TriDot program for myself, but I'll be like, okay, if I was going to write myself a program, what would it be? And then I compare it to what TriDot is going to be. So it's like that sort of accountability that I also need myself, even though I have all the experience and I coach that accountability and that opportunity to have a discussion and communication to me is like a high priority to any success in sport. And being able to communicate those feelings, those emotions and a coach is going to help you make the tough decisions. It's like there's reasons outside of what the data is telling us that a coach really enhances and then it's that efficiency that TriDot brings, then the coach enhances that by having that conversation. So again it's coming back to that communication and then that customization, it's like try not does a really good job of. As soon as that data comes in, it straight away makes changes. It can change it faster than will ever be humanly possible. It doesn't matter who you are. And to me that is great because as Jeff says, we can move conversations towards other areas. So I think that's one of the reasons why like a good coach is really important that it, it enhances the whole experience of TriDot because you know, TriDot doesn't know when you're injured, it doesn't know when you're sick. So it's like being able to adjust that, having that conversation with the coach so that you are progressing and moving forward. And then you know, it's like for me, when you're close to something, that perspective that you get is very narrow and you often can't see and because you're not looking in from the outside, you're too close to something. So having a coach looking in from the outside where they can really identify things that you can't even see and you need to adapt and change and I think that's where long term progress along with that short term setbacks that you get, a great coach will also optimize that training along with the optimization that TriDot is doing. So you're not going to be stressed basically you're going to spend more energy doing what you need to do rather than stressing about what you think you need to do or you don't think you, you want to do. So yeah, it's that conversation for me, that communication that makes coaching such a valuable tool no matter what level of athlete that you are.

Andrew Harley: And it sets up, Michellie, it sets up for such a more positive race experience too. Right? You have more fun on race day cause you've got confidence in your back pocket. You know you're, you're not going out. You know, you have a plan, you've thought through everything, you've talked through everything with your coach. Um, you know, we, we, we always tell athletes, right, that tried out training is the best training for you. You can absolutely be ready for race day with just the training if you can't afford a coach. But the most ideal scenario for anyone is tryout training plus a coach because it, it is that beneficial to your training and your race day. Um, I, I, I am, I am curious as you Guys are coaching your athletes and you're spending time having conversations about, about the workouts your athletes are doing. You know, even with TriDot only giving you the sessions you need and even, even with TriDot making that, that training volume Instead of oh, 20, 30 hours a week, you're training, you know, 10 to 15, getting ready for your IRONMAN. Like 10 to 15 hours per week is still an hour or two per day and we're still talking about all the, the strength training you need to do and the other things you need to do and the like. There's, there's even, even at a, a very mindful, efficient approach that TriDot gives you for these big events. It's still a big event, right? A half IRONMAN and an IRONMAN is still a big undertaking and you have training hours that reflect that. So what tangible tips do you give your coached athletes? Like maybe your go to two, three, four things you tell your coached athletes just as they're, they're going through their weekly rhythm of getting in their sessions, what do you tell them to kind of help them make the most of that training time? Coach Michellie?

Michellie Jones: Well, I think the one thing is like each week prioritize like what you can actually get accomplished. I think that's important because although you've sort of set the scheduling and try not set the scheduling realistic, life gets in the way. So, you know, be adaptable. It's like just because it's written down and something gets in the way, don't stress, let it go, move on. And I think that's one of the hardest things that people sort of like, oh no, I've got to do that session because I've got to do it. It's like, no, it's okay. Breathe, relax, keep moving forward. I think the other thing that you know, athletes should think about is, you know, am I doing everything possible outside of that swim, bike and run? You know, it comes back to those little details that you know, make sure you like as I said, you know, make. If you only have five minutes to spend on your mobility, that's better than zero minutes. So again, if life gets in the way, maximize the time that you have. Number three. It's like, don't be afraid to take a day off even though it may not be prescribed. You and you alone knows how you're feeling. And I think triathletes are so motivated, it's not that they need motivation to get going. Usually we've got to hold them back, right? So it's like having an honest conversation with Yourself. And I, like, I've talked about this seven minute rule that I have that if I go out and I'm training and if I don't feel good in the first seven minutes, well, you know, probably it's time to have a day off or, you know, if I feel better. And you know, when you step up to like some of those longer sessions, sometimes it could take 20 minutes to feel good, 30 minutes, 60 minutes. And that's where that experience plays like a huge role, even for a novice athlete. Listen to what your body is telling you. I think that's the biggest key. It's like so many times I'll have athletes say, oh, I've been sick. Well, why didn't you tell me you've been sick? That's good judgment. So again, communication, communication, communication. I think that's probably like the areas of advice that I see that are often overlooked. And people get so stuck in the moment. And it's really important to make good decisions and start learning what those signals that your body are telling you and how to interpret them. And it's not easy at the beginning for sure, but learning to coach yourself, so to speak, that's what a good coach does, right? They teach you what those, those warning signs are. Sometimes it's just a conversation that you have with them and then suddenly you start to go, oh, my coach would say this, and you start answering those questions yourself.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, really, really good. And Jeff, I mean, same question over to you as you're talking with your athletes and you know, whether they have a lot of time or they have a little bit of time, you know, either way, we're all trying to maximize the time that we have to get ready for these events. And especially, Jeff, you mentioned your wife and kids, right? So for the folks out there with extra family obligations that maybe eat up into their time more so than other folks, what, what does that advice look like? What are the 2, 3, 4 go to things you find yourself saying. The athletes on getting the most out of the, the time they have to.

Jeff Raines: Train, you know, we, I've said this before, perfection is not required, but consistency is key. Michellie said that earlier as well. Consistency, consistency. And so, you know, my wife and I trying to train and, you know, having to change a diaper or get off the bike or, you know, go break up a fight and then get back on and. Right. And so, you know, being consistent but knowing that not everything has to be perfect. And then I guess the second piece of that would be being intentional when we, when you Are there, right. And so, you know, we say doing the right training, right? We say that in TriDot, doing the right training is, is doing the try dot what's on the plan. But doing, doing it right is, is actually being intentional inside of the workout. Right. And having that purpose and knowing what the purpose is. So, so that's another layer of that. And then I'll kind of maybe, you know, a third piece would be, you know, there, there, there's a thought that a lot of my athletes, it's the beat yesterday thought or approach. And so maybe you're three months out from an iron man. You might be only riding 40, 45ish miles at that point, let's just say. But your buddies are out riding 85, 90 miles and you're kind of panicking. Well, everyone else is out there riding along. I need to go ride 100 tomorrow. Right. And so people think, well I rode 50 miles last week, so if I ride 55 miles this week outside or three hours, three and a half, I beat yesterday because it's uncharted territory. I've never ridden that far before. So I've got to be doing it right. Right. And that's not the Persona or idea that that is healthy. And, and I thought that I started the sport in 2008, but I didn't come to no try it out until 2015. So, so for those seven years wasted.

Andrew Harley: Jeff, seven years just I'm like, yeah.

Jeff Raines: Like why not ride 100 miles two months early, right? I'm there. I know now I can complete the volume, right. And so I just say be patient, trust the process, trust the plan, don't worry about what other people are doing and don't rush into beating yesterday as far as volume. It will come, trust me.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. And that, that actually Jeff, was the very last thing I wanted to touch on today. And so that was great from you. And so Michellie, you can shut down our main set talking to the same thing, right? When, when athletes look at what their non TriDot peers are doing and, and they're, you know, training more, training longer, earlier. They're, they're some, some of them are doing base miles six months before a race. Oh, I'm building my base to be able to ride for six hours and run for three and it's like your, your race is half a year away. When we see that kind of stuff and we see, you know, social media influencers, you know, hawking up all the training they're doing and this and that for some event, how, how should we handle the second guessing that a lot of folks will do when, when we're like, oh, we're not doing all of that. Am I training correctly? What would you say?

Michellie Jones: My analogy is that you are a bank and you only have so many times that you can withdraw because you've only got so many deposits. And I have this question probably weekly to my athletes, like, but I'm doing an IRONMAN. I want to run a marathon. I have to run a marathon. I go, absolutely not. I have never in my entire career up until now ever run a marathon. Besides, after swimming and biking.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, same.

Michellie Jones: And it's like, I totally get the mental aspect that, oh, but my friends are doing this. And it's like, sometimes it is a bit of a trade off because it's like, you can have the conversation, but ultimately they have to choose. And I say this to my athletes. Like, for example, last week one of my athletes wanted to run 13.1 miles for the sake of running 13.1 miles. And I'm like, well, you know, running a 5K might be a little bit better for you because, you know, you're, you're like racing short course. And like, it would be nice to do a threshold test. You know, it's like, we can move around where we want that threshold test, but it's like, you can have that discussion. Doesn't mean your athlete is always going to follow the path that was pesky. And then like, yeah, and my, my role as a coach, right, is give you the pros and the cons of why you shouldn't do it. And I think the biggest mistake athletes make is they try to withdraw too many times for reasons that aren't going to be performance enhancing, but they're performance enhancing to them mentally at the time they think it is. But it's like, eventually it always happens, it'll turn around to kick them in the back, in the, in the butt. Because as I said, there's only so much money you have in the bank. And you know, it's a tough conversation. And the right answer as a coach is a very different answer for sometimes your athlete. So just understand that every action has a reaction, right? It's, it's so true. But ultimately, you know, you've got to keep your athletes happy, but you've got to keep them healthy. So you've just got to navigate that by ensuring that you are giving good advice. And then it's basically up to them to navigate that good advice. And they don't always take it. That's for sure.

Announcer: Great set everyone. Let's cool down.

Andrew Harley: We always end the show with a coach. Cool down. Tip of the week. And this week with Coach Michellie Jones on the show. Michellie, is there one extra triathlon training or racing tip that you would like to leave our audience with? It can be about anything you like. What would you like to share?

Michellie Jones: Well, you know, this is one of my favorite sayings. Be happy with the race you had, not the race you wished you had. And it goes the same with training. Be happy with what you did on the day, every single day. And, you know, stay present in the journey. You know, it's not just about counting hours. It's not comparing yourself to others and remember where you started. I think that's one of the things that a lot of athletes forget. Like, oh, my goodness, look where you were, look where you are now. And you know that, that consistency, trusting your plan. And there's always going to be fun. Like, I wouldn't be in this sport if there wasn't an element of fun. So remember your why and remember your F U N. Yep.

Andrew Harley: I love this, Michellie, because. And I've heard you say this about race day many times, but I've never applied it to training. Right. Just the thought of, like, whatever you. When you go into that workout, whatever you did out there, even if it didn't go as well as you wanted it to, you still got it in, you still learned from it, you still grew. You know, I grew up as a tennis player, and tennis teaches you to have a very short memory. You can lose a point. You got to turn around and start the next point, and it's a new point. Right? So you have a bad training day, you have a mediocre training day, you have a good training day, but it didn't go the way you wanted it to. Guess what? Go to bed, get some rest, get some protein. You got a new training day tomorrow to get back to it. So really, really great, Michellie. And before we go, Michellie Jones, you just launched a new podcast yourself, and I love the artwork. If you haven't seen Michellie's artwork for her podcast, go look at it right now. It's a fantastic graphic design you did with you and your co host on the page. Just leave us with a quick plug for Coach Michellie and Giddy Up Racing's new podcast.

Michellie Jones: Yeah, the Giddy Up Edge conversations on getting faster. So the concept is like bringing my experience of 37 years and then having a new perspective with one of my athletes who's only two years into the sport, so check it out on Spotify and of course on Apple podcasts as well. I hope you enjoy the conversations as much as we've been enjoying having them.

Announcer: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community. Connect with us on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today. TriDot the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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