6 Big Time Running Tips for Triathletes

TriDot Podcast Episode 286

6 Big Time Running Tips for Triathletes

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Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together.

Vanessa Ronksley: It is a great day for a podcast and I am really excited to welcome everyone to the show today. I have two rock stars here with me who are going to be talking to us about six big time run tips for triathletes. Welcome to Mirinda Carfrae, who we know as Rinny. She is one of the greatest triathletes ever with over 50 wins, a 70.3 World Championship, three IRONMAN World titles and seven Kona podium finishes. Rinny coaches with Salty Bears, which is powered by TriDot. It is so great to be here with you on the podcast, Rinny.

Mirinda Carfrae: Thanks, Vanessa. It's good to be on with you as well. And Jeff.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yes. And our second guest is none other than Coach Jeff Raines. Jeff is a TriDot founding Caster Coach with over 60 IRONMAN event finishes including the World Championship in Nice, and he has coached hundreds of athletes to the IRONMAN finish line. Welcome to the show, Jeff.

Jeff Raines: Oh, great to be here. Can't wait to talk run with Rinny.

Vanessa Ronksley: Exactly. Well, Jeff and Rinny, I am really looking forward to digging into these run tips that you're going to be sharing and I really do hope that the listeners out there can use them to take their running to the next level. And I'm your host today. I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. We will be rolling through our warm-up, heading over to the main set to hear the six best running tips and then we will wind things down with our coach Cooldown tip. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Announcer: Time to warm up. Let's get moving.

Vanessa Ronksley: I'm feeling a little nostalgic today and thinking about the many pairs of running shoes that have taken me on some pretty epic journeys in the past. So our warm up question for today is what was your most favorite pair of running shoes that you have ever owned? And Jeff, I think we're gonna start with you, so let's hear what you have to say.

Jeff Raines: You know, I'm definitely a shoe nerd. I like to test them all out. I like to see what's out there. I try to stay up to date with the latest and greatest and you know the shoe industry has evolved and I feel like it's evolved even more as of late, I should say. But my favorite shoe, it's a throwback. It's still out there. I'm going to say the old Asics Cumulus. Even though every year a new model comes out, it's just a straight up, what I call a traditional shoe. It's not on the minimal drop or it doesn't have a super high stack height. It's just a good traditional, safe, go to shoe. And so I still use that for just long run shoes, you know, runs that I don't care about necessarily shaving 10 or 15 seconds per mile. Just a good, safe pair. The Asics Cumulus. You can't go wrong with that though.

Vanessa Ronksley: I'm wondering what's your favorite colorway that they've ever put out?

Jeff Raines: You know, it's got to have a little TriDot red in it, of course, but I like a little neon pop, so I'll get some of that here and there.

Vanessa Ronksley: Nice, nice. Rinny, what about you? What's your most favorite pair of running shoes that you've ever had?

Mirinda Carfrae: That's a good question. I mean, I feel like I've gone through a bunch of different brands over the years and obviously I was restricted to whatever sponsor I had at the time. My early days of racing IRONMAN, I raced in the Zoot shoes. They made a shoe for a little bit and I loved them at the time. Then I moved on to K Swiss, also a brand coming into the running space and I went minimalist. The Blade ran some decent times in that. Then I went to the New Balance and I loved the 1600 New Balance race flat again, minimalist, super thin sole. But I have to say I've just started running in the super shoes. Only in the last year I ran in them for the first time. Game changer. I have just such a big smile when I'm running in those shoes. The same effort and faster. I mean, come on, can you get any better? Obviously my most recent sponsor was Hoka, so the Rocket X2s. Just a pleasure to run in.

Vanessa Ronksley: That's awesome. I haven't delved into the whole super shoe yet, but I think it's coming. I think I just keep on hearing these amazing things from everyone talking about them. So I think that's going to be on my birthday wish list.

Mirinda Carfrae: I resisted. I resisted for the longest time and obviously I didn't have access to them in my racing career. The first super shoe came out, I got the first super shoe from HOKA like the week after my last race and then I got pregnant. So I only first started running them last year and really it's a lot of fun.

Vanessa Ronksley: That's awesome. That's very cool. And for me, I forgot to even think about this question in terms of what I was going to answer. But I think from the very get go I had this one pair of shoes. They were my favorite pair. I've only ever owned one version of this, but they are the New Balance FuelCell 880s and they're the most minimalist that I've ever had in terms of a shoe. But man, they were the fastest shoes that I had. But my physiotherapist told me that they didn't do any favors for my feet so I wasn't allowed to wear them again. But I still have them and I wear them just around town because they're bright orange, like fluorescent orange.

Mirinda Carfrae: They're just pretty awesome.

Vanessa Ronksley: So that's what it is for me. But I'd love to throw this question out to the audience in the community hub. What was your favorite pair of running shoes that you have ever owned? And I would also love to see some pics. I want to see some of these pictures of these amazing shoes. So throw that into the comments if you have one. I think that will be amazing. And bonus points - if you have a picture of you wearing the shoes in some really cool location, that's even better. So I can't wait to hear what y'all have to say out there.

Announcer: On to the main set. Going in 3, 2, 1.

Vanessa Ronksley: Something that I love to do is watch people run. I will go and sit on a bench in a park and I will just watch people run because I find it so fascinating that every single person runs differently and people's running gaits are different regardless of their speed. Some people just float along and others are not so graceful, but they manage to clock fast times anyways. So we're heading into our first intro question here. I want to hear what you say about run drills. Do you think that run drills have an impact on athletes' gait and possibly get them to go from that graceful or not so graceful run to floating? Jeff, let's hear from you first. What do you think about run drills?

Jeff Raines: I'm a huge advocate. I have to say, and you know, I think we can take kind of a step back and think of it in this regard that we can do a million different modalities to warm up the body before a workout. I mean, I guess you could even essentially sit in a hot tub and stretch a little bit and warm up and then get out and go for a run. Right. But the reason why we do run drills specifically before we run and arguably all the sports out there, basketball players do run drills, soccer players, you know, because there's running involved in a lot of different sports. And so a sports specific warm up. But each drill kind of attenuates or activates a certain aspect of your running form. It wakes it up. It's an exaggerated movement. Right. And so, yeah, you know, there's a reason why you do high knees versus a skip, right, or there's so many different drills. But my answer is that you're exaggerating a particular movement. There's a reason why a skip, for example, believe it or not, is more of an arm drill. So the better and more efficient you fire your arms, the opposite leg is going to follow that. And so in doing that, you're focusing on that certain aspect, the good aspect of your run form in that specific drill, and I'll add this and be done, is that after you do each drill, you want to jog it out. So if you drill for 40 yards, jog it out for 40 yards. So neuromuscularly the good aspect of that drill, hopefully over time, it spills over immediately into your run form and you jog it out. So being intentional while doing the drills is key as well.

Vanessa Ronksley: That's the thing. It's being intentional because I think that a lot of us can mindlessly float through those drills and then maybe not get the full benefit. So thank you for that. Rinny, do you have anything to add about adding or utilizing run drills to help with run form?

Mirinda Carfrae: Yeah, I think just to further chat about what Jeff was just saying, I think it's just creating more awareness with what your body is doing. So exaggerating those movements is going to switch your mind on. Obviously you need to be engaged while you're doing them, so you are aware of the movement that you're doing and the movement pattern you're doing. It's all trying to find that running rhythm and switching on the muscles, obviously, so that when you go and run, you're using the right muscles and finding that rhythm. And I think doing the run drills for some athletes is going to be more beneficial than other athletes, but I think overall everyone can benefit from switching on the muscle groups, running specific and also just body awareness. So just feeling out that rhythm in the skip. You have to have rhythm when you're doing these running drills. So doing that and then going to run, I think is going to enhance the run experience or your run. Just feel good from the get go rather than running, warming up and then starting to feel good towards the end.

Vanessa Ronksley: That's awesome. I think that was a wonderful synopsis of run drills. Thank you so much. I will be more intentional with my own run drills and also suggest the same for the athletes out there. Let's move into our six big time running tips for triathletes. So Raines, let's go to you for tip number one. What do you have for us?

Jeff Raines: Tip number one. You know, choosing the right shoes and also kind of knowing the purpose behind that shoe. And then actually now there are some new IRONMAN rules that have been released and they come into effect March 2025. March 17, to be exact, is the date. But if anybody has seen or heard, in February IRONMAN announced a lot of updated rules for the 2025 season, and they come into effect March 17th. And so you have to know if your shoe is on the banned list. And so I'd like to chat a little bit about just shoe selection and then some of those new updated rules, if that's okay.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yes, please.

Jeff Raines: Well, first of all, you know, IRONMAN came out with some new rules and they're trying to stay kind of closely to the world triathlon's rules. And a lot of the new rules are related to time penalties and gear selection on the bike and things like that. But there is a section there with new shoes and the stack height of the shoe. I know we have multiple episodes about run shoes and things, but the stack height - so that's the height off the ground. So from the bottom of your foot to the bottom of the shoe is called the stack height of the shoe. And the stack height cannot be 40 millimeters or greater than 40 millimeters in thickness. And there are a number of shoes out there now that exceed that. So they're too high off of the ground. And actually, when you said your FuelCell, Vanessa, don't get nervous. Your specific one is okay, but there's a new version of that one, the SuperComp Trainer. And actually one of my favorite shoes is a Saucony Kinvara. It's been around forever. I use that Cumulus to train in, but I raced for many, many years in that Saucony Kinvara. Well, there's a new Saucony Kinvara Pro that has a stack height greater than 40 millimeters. So just know that stack height number means something. And anything 40 millimeters or greater, IRONMAN is cracking down on that and you will get a disqualification if they see you running in those shoes. And the other update to the run shoe world and the rules for 2025 is you can't have more than one rigid plate inside the shoe. You've heard the carbon fiber bandwagon, I should say. But if you have more than one of those rigid plates inside of the shoe, it is banned and then the stack height greater than 40 millimeters. So just know that. But shoe selection in general, I'll just give this quick tip. Just know the shoe, the purpose of the shoe that you buy. Is it more for racing? Is it more for training? Is it a stability shoe? Stability can mean correction, right? Oh, I'm training for my first marathon. Everybody needs stability in their life, right? Yeah, go ahead and give me that shoe. It sounds great. I need that extra, right? Well, it could be providing correction for an issue that maybe you don't need. So stability - half the shoes out there are considered stability or corrective shoes. And then half the shoes are considered neutral shoes. And neutral just means from toe to heel and from left to right, the density of the durometer of the EVA foam is the same throughout. Right. So a stability shoe might have a denser foam on the inside under the arch, creating a ramp or a wall maybe if you overpronate. So it's trying to correct you there. So my point is - and I'm sorry, I'm trying to keep it brief and this is, believe it or not, the quick version - but just know, are you training in that shoe? Are you racing in it? You may want to have multiple. The super shoes are great. The drop of the shoe means something. That Cumulus that I shouted out there in the warm-up, that's just my go-to safe. When in doubt, 75% of my running is in that safe go-to traditional category, kind of heavier shoe. And then I've used all the shoes that Rinny was talking about. I've had every single one. I mix that one in with my traditional everyday trainer and then decide as I get closer to race day which shoe that I want to wear. But I will say that you want to be 100% injury free right before you try a super shoe or a really high stack height shoe or one with that rigid plate inside and then mix it in slowly with your everyday trainer.

Vanessa Ronksley: I think that's a really important point to make, is that you want to mix those different shoes in slowly. Rinny, how did you go about doing that in your training? Did you use it on the treadmill first or did you just do it for like a shorter run and then gradually increase? Like what was your tactic in changing your shoes up?

Mirinda Carfrae: I think one of the perks of being sponsored was that I had a lot of shoes at my disposal so I didn't really worry too much. Obviously I had my shoes that I would do my hard sessions in. I guess it's more shoe selection. So for me I would have my racing flat shoes or race specific shoe and I would save those for my key sessions. So, you know, not so much running off the bike, more like two key sessions a week. Then I'd have my long run shoe and so that one maybe had a little bit more cushioning, a little bit heavier. And that was just my everyday trainer. Like I'd run off the bike in that shoe. I would, you know, it's just a zone two running shoe. And these days I go even further. I am running right now for fun, but also like trying to get a little bit quicker and incorporating the super shoe in. I think that shoe I reserve just for once a week because I think if you run in it all the time, you all of a sudden - well, I've spoken to a lot of people about the super shoe and this common gist is that I felt the benefit in the start, but now I don't really feel the benefit anymore. And I think what is happening is they're running in the super shoe all the time and so they're getting lazy and not running as efficiently and as purposefully as they used to because they had to in the old shoes, whereas the super shoe sort of gives them a little bit of a help. So with the super shoe in the mix now, I use that once a week. It's like my one hardest run session a week and then I have like another intermediate shoe I do for my other decent run session. And then the rest is just, you know, I run trail shoe around here if I'm running in trails or just like a general everyday stock standard zone two running shoe. So it's more about picking shoes for sessions and not necessarily like running a shoe in. I probably would just grab a shoe and run my two hour run in it brand new. But because I'm used to running in new shoes, I think if you've been running in a shoe and it's dead and you've been running in it for four months, then yes, maybe you need to slowly bring that new shoe in. But if you have access to different multiple shoes, then that's how I would choose what shoe I would choose to run in for what session.

Vanessa Ronksley: I can only imagine your closet filled with all of these running shoes.

Mirinda Carfrae: It's ridiculous. I'm not sponsored anymore though, so my days are numbered when I have to start buying and I will be running in one shoe for four months.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, exactly. All right, I think we're gonna move on to tip number two. And I know that this is something that is so important in my running life as a highly injured athlete. So Jeff here, I think we need to hear your tip number two.

Jeff Raines: Yeah, you know, it's addressing inefficiencies, imbalances, or you could call them deviations. And deviations are actually all of these things are things that could lead to injury. Even if they never do lead to injury, if you address them or pay attention to them, they could make you more efficient. So it could be free speed or free injury prevention or free speed or a better result. And so, you know, I actually have to throw this out. Like shoe selection is a big one, right? You have to have the right footwear. You have to have good form when you run. And then you have to have good training, like a good training plan, right? And overuse injury is why runners get injured. And so those are kind of like three external categories that all fall into these imbalances or inefficiencies. But you can't put on a shoe and it make you faster, right? You have to be intentional. Like Rinny was saying, you have to pay attention - being aware and intentional in the moment. A super shoe or something may be an aid to help you stay a little bit more efficient longer into a race or a long run. And what we have to consider also is that by the time you get to the run in triathlon, so many things could have gone wrong up to that point already. Nutrition or bike or cadence was too low or swallowing water in the swim and maybe GI issues, whatever. So the run has a stigma in our sport that people learn to not like running. And a lot of it is because in triathlon, so many things could affect you before you even get to that run. But anyways, deviations - there's a couple main ones that I've seen and hip drop tends to be the biggest one. And then maybe I call it the bowling leg, right where that trail leg sweeps across, right. And actually that's a hip adduction during the swing phase. And then your leg could kind of kick out wide maybe potentially right when during that swing phase. And that is your hips are internally rotated. We see that a lot in runners, which means your externals aren't working. So those are kind of three of the main deviations or inefficiencies. And the fourth is overstriding. That one has to be thrown in there. That's actually probably number one on the list. And so for long course racing especially and running off the bike, a shorter stride and cadence is good when in doubt. Right? It's more efficient, it feels good. But as far as hip drop, that's a big one. So when you're weighted on the stance leg, is that glute on that stance leg strong enough, efficient enough to hold up that side of the body, but also keep the other opposite hip level during all of that? That's a big one and that is glutes. Glutes, glutes, glutes. I know runners hear that all the time, but that's kind of the why - it's a hip drop. It's a glute medius issue. Usually on the opposite side of the stance leg. Bridges, single leg deadlift, single leg exercises. I have to throw that out there. You have to put that into your regimen two to three times a week. Those are huge. The bowling leg, right? That leg that sweeps across, clams are really good for that. Resistance side steps with a band around the knees can help. That really helps there. And then just - I'll stop there. I could go on and on, but glutes are huge and then your hip flexors. So make sure that you're getting out of that sagittal plane and that you're working those, because those can make you more efficient. If it levels out the hip drop, right, usually on the dropped hip side, you're traveling less. That's distance per stride. That DPS is less on the dropped hip side. So if you level out your hips, maybe you travel 0.1 meters per stride longer. And just because you leveled out, right, and that might be 10 seconds per mile, you're not injured or anything like that, but you're just more efficient in doing so.

Mirinda Carfrae: Yeah, that was a great synopsis.

Vanessa Ronksley: Thank you so much. So we've talked about shoes, we've talked about addressing these imbalances and inefficiencies. Let's move on to our third tip. Rinny, what is something that we should consider to help improve our running as triathletes?

Mirinda Carfrae: Well, I think as triathletes, the main difference to runners is that we are running on tired legs. We are never running fresh. So while doing those great, fast, fresh speed sessions are great - and sometimes it is important to get a fresh, good, fast run in - we're really always training for strength, endurance, and running on tired legs. So how do you do that? You run on tired legs. So a lot of progression runs. I think there's no more bang for your buck in triathlon than obviously running off the bike, yes. But progression runs, where you're doing a longish run and it's building so that you're tiring your legs out and then having to find the speed or find the pace when your legs are under fatigue. And that obviously you got to build up over time because you don't want to get to the end of your run, have poor form, and then try and go fast. You need to build up to a place where that build run is to a point where your form is still good, your legs are tired, but you can increase your pace and finish strong. So, yeah, build runs, running off the bike. And obviously in triathlon training, your legs are very rarely fresh because you're always sort of biking or running or something. So there is a low level of fatigue all the time. But, yeah, just trying to build sessions and make sure your last intervals are as fast or faster than your first intervals in any run session. I'm sure Jeff has something to add to that.

Jeff Raines: Yeah, I mean, sure. I get this question a lot. Should I do my long course training or my full IRONMAN long run the day after the huge long maybe bike ride and that run-off? Right. So if you have a five hour ride on a Saturday with a run-off, should you always do your long run that next Sunday morning, right, less than 24 hours later - fatigue. There is value in that. But I err on the side of caution. It is good to run on tired legs and you should mix in a little bit of speed work or a progressive because the faster you run, the better your form usually is. Right. So don't just slog random miles on tired legs. So definitely be intentional. But I wouldn't also make every single one of your long runs always within 12 to 24 hours of that long session. But there is value in doing it maybe once every third session or something like that. I typically like the really long run specifically focusing on mileage and stamina to be earlier in the week and then that weekend be the long bike. But I will add time to that run off the bike, especially on that weekend run. And then every now and then maybe mix in a longer run the day after that big bike ride.

Vanessa Ronksley: You know, when I first started training as a triathlete, I was randomly doing workouts just like everyone does, I'm sure, when they get into the sport - you just kind of do whatever you feel is right at the time. And when I finally came across TriDot, one of the things that I noticed and what I really liked was how orderly the sessions were and how they gave you this prescribed recipe for how to execute your sessions. And I started moving them around a lot to kind of fit into my own schedule. And I progressed obviously as an athlete because I was so brand new to the sport. But when I wanted to increase my performance, I actually started to leave the sessions where they were. And what I noticed was on Tuesday, for example, there's an intense bike and there's a strength training session and then you have your long run on Wednesdays. And my legs were always tired after doing that intense work and then going into the long run on Wednesday. And I was always questioning like why are we doing this? And it just makes sense, right? Like it makes sense to have that opportunity to run on those tired legs even from one day to the next. And like you were saying Jeff, like from Saturday to Sunday - long bike ride and run to long run on Sunday - I feel like the program that is set up and the training platform is set up to allow for that to happen. So that when you get to that taper and you get to that race day and you're feeling really good, it's because you've put in all of that work throughout the entire pre-race season and then through your development as well. So if anyone is out there using TriDot and you're moving your sessions around willy-nilly, maybe get in touch with a coach or something to help you to get to that next level. So I think that this tip goes really nicely with the next one. So Raines, how about you go to number four of our big time running tips for triathletes?

Jeff Raines: Yeah, this is how to run off the bike. And this is a big one. I'll just say that typically the cadence swing - I should say - between the bike and the run shouldn't be too big of a swing. So your bike cadence shouldn't be a huge deviation from what is your run cadence. So you may not want to bike at a 160 cadence and then run at a 185 cadence. Right. It's just a huge swing or shock to the body. And so what I like to do there, actually this might bring it home a little easier. There's kind of two main sayings I would say, and more so in long course triathlon, that whatever your heart rate is at about miles two or three off of the bike in an IRONMAN, your heart rate will never be lower than that again without slowing down or walking, most likely. And the second saying kind of is once you slow down or walk in that IRONMAN, you typically or usually don't get that original pace back again or at least be able to hold that right to the finish line. And so my tip would be, is that on the bike you're intentional with your cadence, right? And you don't want it to be too far off of what is your run cadence. But late into the bike in long course racing, you get a little bit tighter, your mind starts to drift, right. And as your hips get tighter, your knees splay out a little bit wide. And so when your mind drifts and you get tight, your cadence kind of subconsciously lowers kind of that mile 80 plus or maybe after mile 40, 45 in a half iron, the cadence can start to lower. And you don't necessarily know that that's happening. Right. And so what happens is, is when you just get off the bike and you stand up in T2, you're not sitting down anymore. So you stand up, your heart rate increases a little bit. Then you jog a little bit in T2. Heart rate goes up even more. Then you put on your run shoes, and you get out on the run course, and you actually start running for real. Heart rate goes up even more, right? And so my tip is this, is that what I would do that last five to ten minutes at least in triathlon, click that one gear easier, flush out any lactic acid, tired legs, right? Get that range of motion back a little bit, but match what is soon to be the most likely slightly higher run cadence, right? So you're flushing out tired legs, but you're matching what is soon to be that higher run cadence so that when you get in T2, right, it doesn't just shock your body and your heart rate skyrocket by 10 or 15, and then you can't control it by that mile 2 or 3 of the run. And then what I like to do is the first one, two, couple miles in half or full IRONMAN is match what was the lower heart rate you saw all day on the bike, regardless of pace, right? We typically hold a slightly higher heart rate running than we do on the bike. So the first couple of miles, shorter stride, higher cadence - you matched that cadence on the bike, so your heart rate hopefully didn't skyrocket. But then you hold the lower heart rate you saw all day on the bike for the first mile or two. Who cares what your pace was? Then at mile two or three, go run that goal pace, right? And if your heart rate increases higher than your run heart rate, then something's got to give, right? If your heart rate's pretty in check, then just hold that pace for as long as you can and watch the heart rate. That's my tip.

Vanessa Ronksley: I love that. That's awesome. Thank you very much for that. I'm going to have to re-listen to this and take notes and put it into my race plan. Rinny, do you have any additional tips on how you run off of the bike?

Mirinda Carfrae: No. I think Jeff nailed it really well there. I did a little bit different through my career. My cadence was pretty low on the bike, and my run cadence was high. But again, I think it's just a different world when your whole life is triathlon and you train every single day for 30 hours a week - you can afford to do that. But I think everything that Jeff said totally makes sense. Keeping that heart rate low, preparing well for the bike, right? I think the biggest thing is - the other biggest thing which we're going to chat about in a moment is fueling well.

Jeff Raines: Right.

Mirinda Carfrae: Like you've got to set yourself up for success on the bike. Like I always super compensated on the bike, ate more on the bike. Obviously nutrition's come a long way now. So the number of carbohydrates the athletes are taking on these days is mind boggling, you know, to someone who was racing 10 years ago. So I think the other big factor there is just fueling well on the bike so that when you get off you can focus on running more and not have to worry about like right away getting the gels in. So letting yourself settle into that run. And I think, yeah, it's a really smart thing to think about your heart rate at mile two or three. If it's through the roof, it's probably gonna be a tough long run. So making sure you're intentional about easing into that run. It's a long, long way and you don't wanna be walking at mile five. Cause that's a very long way home.

Vanessa Ronksley: It sure is. Why don't you take us right into that fifth tip there and let's hear about nutrition.

Mirinda Carfrae: Yeah. So the other big run tip is practicing fueling while you're running. And I think, you know, a lot of our run sessions are an hour long or they're 30 minutes or outside of our big long runs - and maybe there's 75 minutes during the week on the Sunday as well. Fueling during those is not necessary. Right. Like you can eat your breakfast, you can get through that session just fine without any fuel, but that's not going to help your gut learn how to process the food while you're at high heart rate. So there is a learning curve or you can train your gut to be able to absorb carbohydrates or more carbohydrates while you're exercising. And you know, you think in a race you absolutely are going to have to take on carbohydrates while you're running. 100% you need it. You're not going to get through a half marathon or a marathon without some fueling. And so my tip is just to practice that. You know, eight weeks out from a race start, if you aren't already, and I coach my athletes - any session that has quality in it, they should be taking in carbohydrates. Any session that is a longer duration, more than an hour, they need to be taking in carbohydrates as well. It's not only going to be good for the session itself, it's going to be good for their recovery. And of course, for when it comes to race day, they're training their gut. So you know, you can start small if you're not used to trying to take on fluids or carbohydrates while you're training, while you're running. Sorry. You know, 30 grams of carbohydrate, 200 milliliters of fluids. Try and take that in small sips throughout the run session and over time you'll be able to build up the amount of carbohydrates that you can comfortably take on and it won't feel like a gut bomb. You know, back in the day, I used to hear people like Pete Jacobs would go and eat a burger and then go and run because he wanted his gut to be invincible. And certainly through my training as well, I got to the point where I could eat anything. I could go and like raid the fridge and then run and it'd be fine. My gut was to a point where it was somewhat bulletproof. And you want that for when you are doing a marathon because the biggest obstacle that a lot of people face is fueling - and absorbing that fuel. Not fueling itself because anyone can stuff food in their mouth, but if their stomach has not learned how to process those fluids and those carbohydrates, then it's just game over. And so obviously you want a mixture of glucose and fructose. There's so many great products now that are easily absorbed through the stomach wall. But yeah, just practicing it is so important.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah. I just have one question as a follow up to something that you had mentioned. When you are incorporating your nutrition into a longer run, so let's say it's over an hour, hour 10 or whatever, at what point do you start taking that nutrition into that run?

Mirinda Carfrae: I would start in the first 20 minutes. And again, you're not trying to - you don't even need to have a whole gel. So you carry a gel, maybe you have a little bit of water, or you can put the gel inside the water, which I coach my athletes to do, because then they're slowly sipping it throughout the run. And you might not feel like it at the start, but I think even throughout your training - I encourage you to do this - but particularly in that last eight weeks before your race, you're training your gut as well as everything else. So yeah, in the first 20 minutes, start sipping on or take a small mouthful of your gel. I would take like half a gel and then 20 minutes later take the other half of the gel. So yeah, I think pretty immediate, somewhat immediately into your run you want to start taking on those carbohydrates.

Jeff Raines: Yeah. And I'd love to add just the whole training the gut and we're all reading that, you know, some of the pros are taking 95 to 120 grams of carbs. And that is not for most. So just disclaimer there. But in general, the industry is now able to handle more carbs per hour. And just because you swallow 80 grams of carbs doesn't necessarily mean your body's going to give that much amount of energy on the back end to you. Right. You have to train the body. And it's arguably, but anything over about 60-ish grams of carbs needs to come from something that is not just a glucose maltodextrin source. So Rinny said mixing in a glucose fructose mix, if you're going to go into that higher range kind of, that 70 to 90 grams of carbs is where you're going to need to start mixing in something of a fructose source with the glucose. But fructose is harder on the gut for most. So that's that eight week out. That's great. Start mixing that in. And you know, especially long course racing - and I keep referring to that because nutrition and longevity is where the run tends to hit us the most. And nutrition is more of a key factor. But it's all about long course racing, kind of like a hurry up and wait. Right. And we're trying to keep our heart rate the same all day. We're trying to keep our cadence the same all day, our effort the same all day. You know, we're trying to keep our nutritional intake the same all day. Right. And what Rinny is saying is get that nutrition in constantly throughout each hour. Don't say, oh, it's been 30 minutes since I ate or drank. Let me chug half a bottle and take that gel because it shocks the gut. And so that steady intake all day is what you're trying to mirror in long course racing. So training the gut to absorb it safely, but also to absorb it hour after hour. There's a difference in being able to do it in a two and a half hour long run versus a 17 hour IRONMAN. So that's a lot of nutrition that you're taking in that high amount hour after hour after hour after hour. And that's what you're trying to train.

Vanessa Ronksley: Absolutely. I think that's really important and valuable information. Thank you so much for those tips. I'm curious if either of you can comment on - we're talking about taking in these large numbers of carbs. Why would someone even want to do that? Why would we want to be getting up to 90 or I guess 60 or more plus grams of carbs per hour? What's the benefit of that?

Mirinda Carfrae: More fuel. The more fuel you have, the easier. I don't know, I feel like you just, you can just go harder, longer.

Jeff Raines: Right.

Mirinda Carfrae: Like when you're at a high level of intensity, you're using a lot of fuel and so if you have that fuel readily available, you can just keep going. And so I think nutrition - I think the reason, there's a number of reasons why we're seeing such big progressions in our sport. One of the big ones is nutrition, because being able to have that fructose glucose mix and whatever other magic they have in there right now. And yeah, taking, I mean back in the day I was around 75 grams of carbohydrate per hour and that was considered pretty high. That was what I would take on the bike, not on the run in Kona. And now they're up around 120mg of fuel throughout the bike. I mean, I think that's obviously something you need to build up to and it's not for everyone. It absolutely can be a nightmare if your body is not able to process that carbohydrate because it just gets stuck in the gut and then it's basically the same as bonking anyway because nothing is moving. But yeah, more fuel, more fuel to just burn. Right?

Vanessa Ronksley: I think something that I've seen a lot at the races - I've had such a wonderful opportunity to see so many athletes racing and I feel like one of the biggest things is when someone's day is not going well, it's most likely due to nutrition, especially in the longer race times and people aren't feeling well. And it most likely has to do with the fact that there's a lot at play there. There's the grams of carbohydrates, there's the electrolytes, there's the fluid balance. And so I think that nailing that and getting it right is going to lead to a more positive race experience for everyone. So I know that in the run especially, it is very challenging to take in those carbs and the fluids. So it's good to have some tips. So thank you so much. I think that we're going to move into our final tip of the big time running tips for triathletes. Rinny, let's hear your last tip.

Mirinda Carfrae: For runners, this last big running tip is a little bit more nuanced and that, you know, it's kind of taking it a step further. And I think when we think of triathlon, it's a summer sport and most of the races or a lot of the races, not all - the run is in the middle of the day or later in the day. And so it's generally pretty warm. And so this one's just more about heat adaptation and things that you can do to be ready for a warm race. So you're obviously, Kona's the big one, but there are many races around the country that are very warm. And so one of the things that you can do to prepare for that is to do some heat adaptation work and sauna work. And usually I would suggest athletes do this around three to four weeks out from their race. It will improve thermoregulation, plasma volume and sweat efficiency. So you're thinking, you know, probably around two to three times a week, 20 to 30 minutes per session. Obviously at the start, you'd do maybe 15 minutes in the sauna. And you do this immediately after a workout. So if you have, you know, you're at the gym, you do a swim or you do a run on a treadmill or something, jump in the sauna for 15 to 20 minutes. And this is a really good way to help your body be ready for that hot run off the bike. And I'm thinking, you know, if athletes don't live in a hot place, you know, they're living, it's winter, it's cold, they're going to do a race somewhere warm and they can't just go and run off the bike outside in the hot temperature. They don't live in Florida. This is a great way to help your body prepare for racing in the heat.

Vanessa Ronksley: You're speaking my love language, which is warmth. Yeah, right. I'm cold these days and I love being warm. I have all the heating blankets. I have the foot warmers. I've got all the things and I love being in the sauna. I just love that heat and I feel like it's such an important thing to think about. Especially if your race is not necessarily in the typical warm months. I know living up north in Canada, a lot of the races happen in September, October or November - those full distance races. And it's hot still where those races happen. But we're already getting - and so we can heat train in the summer, obviously run in the hottest parts of the day. But then when you get those really long sessions, it's hard to heat train if it's snowing outside. So I think that is really valuable information to know. Like to go into a hot environment in that sauna or hot tub if you have access to that after your training sessions. That's really excellent. Raines, do you have anything to add on heat training or even heat management in training?

Jeff Raines: Yeah, just I would know your sweat rate loss versus your sodium loss per liter of sweat. That number is genetic. The amount of sodium that the human body loses per liter of sweat is a specific number and it doesn't change. What changes is how much you sweat per hour. Right. And so Precision Fuel and Hydration has a great sweat rate test that you can all do. We can all do. I've done it. It's great. I'm kind of on the higher end of the normal range of sodium loss per liter of sweat. A liter is almost two pounds of fluid. Right. And so every two pounds of sweat that comes out of me, I have about an average or slightly higher than average amount of sodium that comes out inside of that. But I am a ridiculously high sweater, so I will typically lose more than a liter of sweat per hour even on this little bike behind me in my office. I'll do an hour zone two ride and I'll lose three pounds, let's just say. Right. So now that sodium loss per liter of sweat is 1.5 times. So now that makes me in the extreme high. Right. So know if you're a high sweater. Some people don't sweat much at all, but they actually lose a lot of sodium. And so just knowing those and having a nutritional plan around that is key. And then weigh yourself before and after workouts in different environments, but also after different types of workouts. Right. If it's an indoor zone two at 70 degrees, right, what's a three hour outdoor in the heat? And so know what you're ingesting versus what you're losing in different environments. So that when you get closer to race day, you can kind of know, all right, I lose one pound when it's 90 degrees and I'm pushing zone three effort. So now you can hone in on a race day strategy.

Announcer: Great set, everyone. Let's cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: Rinny, welcome to the Cooldown. We have been on the podcast a few times together, but we've never been on the Cooldown, which is why I'm excited even more than usual to have you here on the Cooldown with us. Our athletes are super lucky to have you share one final tip. It can be anything about racing, anything in training. It could be nutrition, anything that you have to give. What would you like to share for the coach Cooldown tip of the day?

Mirinda Carfrae: You know, the biggest thing or the one tip that my coach - obviously she was amazing throughout my career - but the one thing she said to me early in my career was to look after myself, take care of my body. And I think as a young triathlete, it was always just go smash yourself all the time. Go smash yourself. Go work hard, like push, push, push, push, push. And that was like just a different take on triathlon training was listen to your body. If it's speaking to you in an area, take care of it right away. If you can get massage - the more you look after your body and the better you take care of it, the more it's going to give to you in terms of good performances, feeling good. And so for me, that one, as much as it's like, yeah, duh, it was good to hear because I think triathletes and type A personalities as a whole, it's just a more is better mentality. Train harder. And I think the reason I had such a long career and relatively or basically injury free throughout my career was because of that taking care of my body, listening to myself, and just not always crushing myself. So that's my one little tip to the triathletes out there. Treat yourself.

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