Athlete to Triathlete (Part Two): Ten Stories from Ten Sports

TriDot Podcast Episode 268

Athlete to Triathlete (Part Two): Ten Stories from Ten Sports

Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Vanessa Ronksley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast, friends! A few weeks ago, Andrew posted in our social communities asking people what sports they participated in that helped, or perhaps hindered, their journey to becoming a triathlete. Andrew was hoping to get 10 or maybe 12 responses, and he ended up with over 30 of them. So today we will be doing Part Two of “Athlete to Triathlete”. Joining me for this episode is Coach Joanna Nami. Joanna is better known as Coach JoJo, and has been coaching athletes with TriDot since 2012. She is a co-founder of Hissy Fit Racing, a member of the Betty Design Elite Squad, and has double-digit IRONMAN finishes on her accomplished triathlon résumé. She is also a three-time IRONMAN World Championship finisher. Jo, welcome back to the show!

Joanna Nami: Thanks for having me, Vanessa! I'm super excited to be here. I think this is going to be very entertaining.

Vanessa: I hope so! I really hope that it will be entertaining. And here I am, I'm Vanessa, your Average Triathlete with Elite-Level Enthusiasm, and grateful as always to be hosting the show. I often say to myself, “A day that includes recording a podcast is always a great day,” especially when I'm here with Coach JoJo. As always, we'll roll through the warmup question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with our cooldown. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Vanessa: Medically speaking, a true “bonk” is the moment in a race or a workout where your body shuts down and will not let you continue moving forward. Hopefully, most of us have never gotten to that point. But we may have had moments where we got too close for comfort. Today's warmup question, “What is the closest you have ever come to bonking in a workout or a race?” Joanna, you are always full of good stories, so let's hear if you've ever bonked or have come close to bonking.

Joanna: Oh, most definitely. I would say that happens quite often. I think with the amount of training that we do day in and day out, it's very tricky to stay up with daily fueling of calories we need just for a living, versus the amount of training we put in. I think I was training for the last Kona that I did, riding by myself, doing a 100-miler, and just started feeling really bad. I made it back to an area, or a clubhouse, that has a bathroom and water fountain, but it was at the point of stripping off the bike jersey, sitting on the ground, pouring water over my head. And I started to have those – you don’t know if it’s really, like, panic-y, or are you going to faint? And I started looking around for people, because if you're going to go down, you want to tell somebody. But I think being really smart about, in those situations, not panicking, because it's funny how quickly you can recover by bringing down your core body temperature, taking in some sugar, taking in some salt, resting for a few minutes, deep breathing. I was able to get back up, get on the bike, and make it 14 miles home. So bonking is serious, and there's some cases where there is no recovery and you need medical attention. But I remember at Cozumel I did also, where I started the run and thought, “There is not going to be any running here. I can barely walk.” And it's real funny how you can turn that around with fueling and a little self-talk, some positivity, and end up running the whole thing. So it is serious, but it's really based on fueling and kind of pumping yourself up mentally.

Vanessa: Absolutely. My story goes kind of along the lines of that as well. Mine doesn't really classify as a workout, but I did a lot of bike commuting when I was a teacher, and we happened to live at the top of a 2.5-kilometer hill. So on my way home from work one day, after those long, hard days, I didn't come close to bonking. I actually did bonk, and unfortunately, it was at the bottom of the hill. And like you said, it's like this really weird feeling. You get lightheaded, you’re not sure, like your vision goes a little bit blurry, and then you just can't move forward. You all know the symptoms. But I ended up pulling off the road and onto some grass, and I sat next to this chain-link fence, and I was rummaging around in my backpack, and I found this really old package, a little baggie that had some roasted edamame beans in it, had some craisins in it. I was like, “I'm just going to eat these and see how I feel.” A couple of motorists actually stopped their vehicles to ask if I was okay, because I must have looked so horrible next to this fence.

Joanna: Like “No, no I’m not.”

Vanessa: Yeah, and I was like, “I'll be okay, I just need a few minutes.” And you're right, you have to have that little bit of a reset, and once you get the calories in, the energy eventually kicked in, and I had enough energy to get back up the hill. But man, that is one of the worst feelings.

Joanna: It is. It's crazy. It's so funny, because I'll laugh at myself at the self-talk. It's like I'm talking to one of my kids and I'll be like, “You're okay. You're a big girl. You can do this.” And I catch myself giggling at myself. But it works.

Vanessa: Oh, yeah. For sure. You have to have that self-talk. And I think what you said earlier about being, like, calm yourself down and try not to panic. Because as soon as you get that panic, it kind of exacerbates all of the feelings and what you're going through. So if you can just take some deep breaths and calm down, you'll get back to it. You will. You just have to ride it out. I cannot wait to hear what y'all have to say about your bonking stories, or close-to-bonking stories. Make sure you check out the post that will be up in the Facebook page and in the Community Hub. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

PRECISION HYDRATION (Vanessa): We've spoken to sports scientist Andy Blow during several episodes of the podcast to help you nail down your hydration and fueling strategy for training and racing. The big takeaway from those episodes with Andy is that there simply isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to race nutrition. And that's why the team at Precision Fuel & Hydration have developed the Fuel Planner. Head over to precisionfuelandhydration.com to take the Fuel Planner and get your free personalized fuel and hydration strategy. The plan provides guidelines for how much carbohydrate, sodium, and fluid you should be aiming to consume so that you know your numbers for your next race. You can then hit those numbers by using the Precision Fuel & Hydration product range, which is designed to make it easier for you to keep track of your intake during racing, as the carb and sodium content per serving is right there on the front of the packaging. While at the Ambassador Camp in St. George, I was blown away by the Precision Fuel & Hydration team. Having a sweat test was an integral part of my nutrition strategy for training and racing, and I have to say that my favorite treat is the PF 30 Chew, because the mint flavor is next-level. As a TriDot listener, you can use the code TRIDOT24 to get 10% off your first order of electrolytes and fueling products.

Vanessa: I can't think of a better partner to have sitting here next to me for this super-fun episode. Coach Jo and I will be listening to soundbites submitted by athletes from our community. The athletes are reflecting on their journey to becoming a triathlete, and how the sport they did previously has enhanced their experience. I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say, JoJo, about each of these journeys that we will be listening to.

Joanna: Yeah, Vanessa, I think it's going to be awesome. I love hearing our TriDot athletes' input. Everybody has their own personal stories of being athletes when they were younger. One of my things I often talk about with my athletes, or athletes that interview me to coach, is that we all, or most of us, were athletes of some sort growing up and that you really, in a sense, lose yourself as you become a parent– as you marry and become a parent or become an adult and work, trying to balance everything. And it's such a cool feeling to get some of that “I found myself” back when you start triathlon. I think that's why it's so attractive to people and it's so addictive, because you feel young again and you feel like yourself. So it's going to be really fun to hear about what sports people participated in and how they can relate that to triathlon.

Vanessa: I absolutely love what you just said, because that is exactly how I felt when I joined the sport of triathlon. Coming from a background that did not include any individual sport, it was something that I was so driven to do, because I was only relying on myself as opposed to relying on a team or something else. So we're about to kick off this episode.  And I know, Jo, this is something that's very close to your heart, this first clip here. Our first audio clip is from Sandy Larsen, who is one of our Ambassadors from Las Vegas.

Sandy Larsen: Hi, my name is Sandy Larson. I'm from Las Vegas, Nevada. Here's a cheer that'll turn you on, because TriDotters are number one! Yes, I had a background in cheerleading and gymnastics, and I do feel that that sport has given me not only mental strength, it has also given me that I can overcome fear and regain that determination after a setback or an injury. I definitely have flexibility. I probably owe that mostly to the sport. I could clip in, get on a TT bike, and right away take off with balance, and also able to grab a bottle at the back and any type of nutrition, and handle riding at the same time. It's always come easy for me. Fear– probably fear is one it's easy for me to overcome, only because some of your gymnastics can be at a high level, right. Same thing when you get on a bike and you descend. I've always descended pretty fast. Not as fast going up, I will tell you that, but I am really fast going down. And I owe it to my ability, growing up as a cheerleader, and gymnastics. Probably the thing I would say that that sport did not help me with is poise and stiffness. Swimming– I never swam. I just started swimming eight years ago, and my coach would always get on me about, “You're so stiff, Sandy! Bend your elbow!” Because that's how it is in cheerleading; you're constantly poised, and trying to make sure that those positions are exact. I'm definitely a big cheerleader, too. When I get on the course – Las Vegas Tri Club knows me for this – I get out there, I am screaming. “You got this!!” But that's the sport that I did, and grateful that it did give me what I have today to complete two Ironmans. I have six half-Ironmans. That's what I contribute my sport to.

Vanessa: Well wow, there is a lot to unpack there from Sandy. Thank you so much for submitting that. One of the things that stuck out to me was – and that's something that is so valuable, such an important skill from both gymnastics and from cheerleading – is that ability to overcome fear. If you're trying to do something on an apparatus like a balance beam, and you're doing, like, a backflip– like you have to do that for the first time, and that's terrifying. So having the ability to know that you're going to attempt this, and that it might not work out the first time, and that there's going to be supports there to help you get over that – I think that fear, and having that skill to overcome the fear, is very, very important. Especially in triathlon, like she said, for descending hills, if that's something that you're afraid of. But for a lot of people, that fear is the swim. The first thing, the first part of your day in a race is the swim. So you have to be able to overcome that fear, regardless of what it is. Whether it's having too many people near you in the swim, or the waves that might be present for the conditions of that day. There are a lot of things to be afraid of. The unknown of what's going to happen in your race, that's terrifying for a lot of people, because we do, as triathletes, like to have everything set in place, and we like to have plans for everything. And sometimes things don't go according to plan, and that can be fearful and create a little bit of anxiety. So having that built into your skillset is really, really valuable.

Joanna: I loved everything that Sandy said. She does have amazing enthusiasm, and you can kind of tell from her spirit that she probably cheered. There's something we can see amongst each other. There's a couple other things that, when I was thinking about this, is that it's been really special, even though triathlon is an individual sport. There's a real camaraderie and just a real dependence on your teammates in cheerleading. I had coed squad in high school and in college, and it’s like a family. You do practice two times a day, more than the football team did, so there's such a bond that you form. And I think we're seeing that. That's what's kept me in triathlon for so long, is the teammates, the sisterhoods through Betty Designs, and TriDot, and all of Hissy Fit. It's really the relationships, and cheerleading is very much the same way. All the things that she touched on, what I think about for the physicality of cheerleading and triathlon, is flexibility, which really makes you stay in triathlon for the long haul. All of that that I did younger was great for flexibility and mobility. The knees aren't as happy about me jumping on concrete for 12 years, but flexibility and mobility, you literally have a leg up, literally, on other triathletes. And balance, that is something that is so important when it comes to body position in the water and run posture. Things that we constantly talk about with our athletes is improving your balance, especially as we get older. Balance was essential as a cheerleader, and stunting, and being, you know, how far up in the air, and doing crazy pyramids, and all of these things as far as balance. But again, I could go on and on and on.

Vanessa: And I totally agree with you in terms of triathlon being an individual sport but also being a part of a larger team. And I think that's what's kept me in the sport as well– really do feel like you're part of a family. So I appreciate that so much, that Sandy brought that up, and you as well, Jo. This next clip is a sport that I am not too familiar with, and I can't wait to hear what this athlete has to say about the similarities between race car driving and triathlon.

Nick Malone: Hi there. My name is Nick Malone. I'm from Fate, Texas. And before I got into triathlon, I was actually a race car driver. Specifically, I drove Formula Mazda. If you want a visual, just think Formula 1 or IndyCar. It was open-wheeled, winged race cars. Pretty fun. I never did it professionally, but I did it for several years as a hobby, as a sport. And really quick, how I got from that into triathlon was actually by happenstance. I had some back pain, and a friend recommended me to a chiropractor who, as we were talking about auto racing, he had mentioned something about a triathlon that he was interested in getting into. And I said, “Oh, I've never heard of a triathlon. I should look it up.” And when I did, I thought that would be great for building up some endurance for auto racing. So in the gym, I would start, at least twice a week I ended up doing a sprint triathlon. I'd do the swim, go get on the exercise bike, and then the treadmill – did that at least twice a week, and it did wonders for my auto racing. I built up quite a bit of endurance. Eventually, I decided that I should do an actual triathlon, and then the rest is history. I've done sprints and olympics, Ironmans. Six Ironmans later, I’m really enjoying it. Some of the things that were able to translate well from auto racing into triathlon, for one obviously the endurance part. If you can decide you want to do an Ironman, or even, really even a sprint, you need a certain level of endurance. It certainly helps. And being prepared, getting your body in shape. The same with taking care of equipment. With a race car, you've got to look after things. They break, or you’ve got to service certain items. Same with a bike, or even just your running shoes. They wear out, right, and you have to pay attention to your equipment if you want to perform well, and even just staying healthy. Having the right shoes can help keep your feet right, right? But going from auto racing to triathlon, sure it was a bit of a different type of sport, but thankfully there were several things that really translated well. Another key part was the type of people involved. So in the auto racing world, I did club racing sports, and I raced all over the country, even Indianapolis. But the type of people I came across came from all sorts of walks of life, and it was really comforting to see that there's no specific type of person that does it. It's just anybody who's interested in, they're all welcomed. Then when I got to triathlon, it just seemed like that was amplified by a ton. I did my first triathlon, and I couldn't believe the different types of people I saw there, old and young, small and big, and everything in between. It just really showed that, wow, it doesn't matter where you come from, this is a sport where everybody's welcome, and we're all here to help each other out. It was actually the same in the auto racing world, but I feel like that was even more amplified here in triathlon. I've really been enjoying that.

Vanessa: That was a fabulous clip! Thank you so much to Nick Malone for sending that one in. Something that really resonated with me, that has been talked about a lot on this podcast, is taking care of your equipment. I think John Mayfield was probably one of the first people to say, “a clean bike is a fast bike.” So making sure that you're taking care of your bike is super important. But I was also thinking, as Nick was talking, triathlon is a really expensive hobby. I thought it was always one of the most expensive hobbies, but now I'm like, “Maybe taking care of a vehicle is a little bit more expensive than a bike itself.” So I appreciate his insight on taking care of equipment. But the thing that was my favorite part of his story there was the type of people that are welcome in the sport of triathlon. This is something that gets me right at the core. It truly is a sport for everyone. The number of people that get into the sport from whatever background they come from, and overcome some kind of an obstacle or some hardship that they've had, and they manifest this healing process through triathlon. I think that's why it attracts so many different people. We are, triathletes, we're all out there to help everyone out, and to make them feel like they're accomplishing something great. Because anyone who can get to the start line of a race has put in effort, and they've committed themselves, and they've dedicated their time to doing this. It is such a wonderful community to be a part of, and I love that that was something that Nick noticed in the race car driving, and that it's also present in triathlon. I love that.

Joanna: Yeah, I really enjoyed his answer to that. I was thinking about the parallels of driving the race car and our crazy-fast, light, tri bikes. And I was thinking about reaction time. Because as they're driving, they're making quick decisions on strategy, like shifting gears strategically in the car versus how we do it on the bike. There is strategy to everything that we're doing. When we see a pothole or something in the road, and your reaction time has to be perfect to avoid roadkill, or for him to avoid other cars. It is very parallel when you look at it like that.

Vanessa: The next sport that we're going to be moving to is powerlifting. Let's hear from one of our amazing TriDot coaches who always has something insightful to say. I love listening to her speak. Here's April Spilde talking about her journey from powerlifting to triathlon.

April Spilde: Hey everyone! Coach April here from Colorado Springs, Colorado. I wanted to share with you my journey in competitive powerlifting, and how that translates into my performance now as a triathlete. First, let's talk about what carried over and really helped. I learned discipline, consistency. I learned how to show up day in and day out for myself, even when I didn't feel like it. And there were two really specific laws of training that applied, both in triathlon and in powerlifting. First is the law of progressive overload, where you gradually increase the demands on your body. That was central to both sports. In powerlifting, it's all about adding weight to the bar. And in triathlon, it's about extending those bike rides, running farther, and swimming longer. The second was specificity. I learned how to break up my season into different phases, just like in triathlon with our development phase into race-specific. I learned how to peak for my powerlifting performances. Some things that didn't carry over were the bulk that I gained from lifting heavy. Being too muscle-bound can slow you down, as most know, so I had to focus on slimming down while maintaining functional strength as I transitioned to triathlon training. As for specific moments where lessons from powerlifting come into play – I remember in one of my hardest triathlon races, I hit a point of absolute exhaustion. But I recalled what it was like being on a powerlifting platform and being able to summon the demand to finish strong. That really does carry over in any type of sport, the ability to not give up when things get tough. And in the end, while powerlifting and triathlon are different, they both rely on hard work, discipline, and a willingness to push past discomfort. So I did evolve my training to meet those specific challenges of the sport, but the mindset needed to finish, that's universal.

Joanna: Well, I don't have much of a history with powerlifting. That's not my physique. I do lift, I mean, I'm not going to lie, I do lift, but it's definitely not powerlifting. But I was thinking about what she was saying. There's got to be an extreme mental element to powerlifting and the same kind of fear of failure to perform in front of people. Like we perform in our first Ironman, and your fear of embarrassment or failing, and an extreme belief in yourself, that you can do this. Because they're both very, very difficult at that level, and you have to have that belief in yourself to be successful. The other thing I was thinking about– I might use completely the wrong terms, because I don't know any powerlifting terms– but, like, when they do, is it– y'all are going to laugh or correct me– but like a clean jerk, when they throw up like 500 pounds, it reminded me of how in TriDot we do these workouts like 30-30’s on the bike, or we do MAV shuttles, where it's an intense, tiny interval, and you have to just give it all you have in that moment. So I think there are parallels when you're thinking about some of the physicality of doing both sports. Then I was thinking about, I really focus on this with my athletes, is I can imagine the protein intake that it requires of someone who's a powerlifter. That must be all they focus on and think about, getting 100, 150 grams of protein in per day. That's become far more important as we work with athletes, especially when I'm working with females over 40 now is, or some of my guys that I train is– rarely are we getting enough protein in. So I was thinking we probably could learn something from powerlifters in how they manage their daily diet, and recovering after these intense sessions that test their muscles and muscle recovery, and how many good carbs and good protein we are getting in post-workout.

Vanessa: I 100% agree with you on the amount of protein that these athletes must take in. Because they're constantly breaking down muscle and needing to repair, and if you don't put that into your body, then recovery is not going to happen. I remember when I was in my first phase of strength training, I was eating so much protein, it was just nasty. It was like, you would have to eat eight egg whites in one serving, and you're legitimately removing the yolk, or you're buying those little cartons of egg whites. And that was just, like one meal of six. It was just this massive quantity of food. And I can say, just like April had mentioned, you put on a lot of mass, and you get quite bulky. I think the thing that resonated me the most with what April said was definitely the ability to push past discomfort. I think that this comes from a physical standpoint, in addition to the mental standpoint. Because when you see those powerlifters– like, I love watching the Olympics– and when you see those powerlifters getting up there, and they're attempting to lift a weight that they have never lifted before, or maybe one that they've only lifted once or twice in their career, they have to have this monumental belief in themselves. And at that point, I would imagine that when they're about to do their move and they're about to lift that weight, it's probably 95% mental ability, and overcoming that fear, and pushing past that mental discomfort and the physical discomfort. Because everything has to line up perfectly in that moment for you to be able to articulate those physical movements to allow for a perfect lift. That is definitely something that allows an athlete to push forward in the sport of triathlon as well. This next Ambassador actually started her athletic career in a sport that includes not three sports, but five sports. Let's hear what Meredith Burney has to say about modern pentathlon and how it influenced her life as a triathlete.

Meredith Burney: Hi, this is Coach Meredith Burney from Birmingham, Alabama. I competed in the sport of modern pentathlon before becoming a triathlete. Modern pentathlon consists of five sports – running, swimming, shooting, fencing, and horseback riding. At the time I was training and racing, it was only an Olympic sport for men. At the age of 15, this was back in 1985, I was living at the Olympic Training Center, and hoping that I would be able to compete in the 1988 or ‘92 Games. Unfortunately for me, the first Olympic women's modern pentathlon didn't take place until the 2000 Sydney Games, which was after I had retired. But three things in particular that really helped me in the transition from modern pentathlon to triathlon were these: Understanding that I didn't have to be the best in any one sport, but that I needed to be good, or at least decent, at all sports. My strongest event was and always has been the swim, but an interesting result of being exposed to and practicing five sports was that I became a good shooter. I had to learn how to shoot and fence, and later in life I became a proficient enough shooter to qualify for the U.S. National Biathlon Team. That learning and growing in a new sport really helped my mindset when I started cycling for triathlon. I believed that I could get better, and because of that, I wasn't afraid to try, or, really, be scared about sucking at the beginning. Second one, competing in the horseback riding portion of modern pentathlon is literally a gamble. The mounts, or horses, are randomly assigned only 20 minutes prior to your competition, so you never know what kind of animal that you'll get. And it's supposed to help you fly around the ring, jumping fences that are between 4 and 5 feet high. The uncertainty of this portion of modern pentathlon helped me learn, at a really early age, that there are some things in sport that you just can't control. Over the years, I've worked with my athletes to embrace controlling the controllables, and to not worry about circumstances that they have no domain over. Prepare for contingencies? Absolutely. But don't dwell on seemingly negative aspects. If the swim gets canceled due to a hurricane – hello IRONMAN Chattanooga – get over it. Compete with what you have and make the best of it. Finally, at the fencing event for modern pentathlon at the National Championships, I had to duel every single competitor, male and female, which included the men from the 1984 Olympic USA silver medal team. Going head-to-head with these athletes at the age of 15, an épée one-touch bout was intimidating. I've definitely used that specific experience to help me in my triathlon training and racing. The confidence that I could go up against anyone, one-on-one, and potentially win was a huge lesson. So three things that really helped me for modern pentathlon transferred into triathlon were the belief that I could improve in a sport that I was weaker in, understanding that I can't control everything, and having the peace to approach even a David-and-Goliath situation with confidence. I love modern pentathlon, and I really love triathlon.

Vanessa: Oh, Meredith, thank you so much for putting that clip in! That was great. I think the thing that is really important that she drew on from her modern pentathlon career prior to triathlon is that there are things that you just cannot control, and that you cannot focus on those things. That is one of the most important things that you can tell an athlete prior to their race, because they're going to be looking at the weather weeks out in advance, and trying to figure out all the little details to make sure that they're prepared for a specific type of swim, or even what they might need on the bike or the run. But like she said, you have to be prepared for those instances, but you cannot invest yourself and your mindset into what you want to have happen, because it might not happen. And then you just have to, like she said, you just have to get over it and move forward.

Joanna: Yeah, I can imagine it would be, when Meredith was talking, as far as pentathlon and triathlon, it seems that scheduling and your training schedule could seem overwhelming when you're trying to balance multiple sports, and not neglecting one discipline over another, giving enough time to each of them. And you only have a certain amount of time in a week. And there, she was doing five sports, so I can imagine that would be a lot harder. But I loved when she talked about racing against men, because as much as I like an all-female event, which has tons of camaraderie and fun, racing against men feels real good when you're on that bike. You’ll see guys with a shirt that says, “I got chicked.” He got passed. That just reminded me of those experiences.

Vanessa: Our next Ambassador who came from a different sporting background is Jonathan Mejia. He's going to tell us what the similarities are between wrestling and triathlon.

Jonathan Mejia: Hey everyone, this is TriDot Ambassador Jonathan Mejia, and I wanted to share with you how wrestling in high school helped me become a triathlete. So the first and easy item is, obviously we wear singlets in wrestling, so I was used to wearing tight clothing that made you look cool. So that helped translate into being a triathlete because we wear tight clothing that makes us look cool. But then also, it helped me with just understanding your mindset in triathlon, and how, yeah, maybe you have a down period, or maybe you may be down a point, but ultimately you have multiple legs in a race, just like you have multiple periods in a match. And it's thinking about the overall match and just not one specific period. Where it didn't help was obviously there's no bikes and no swimming involved with wrestling, so those are things that I had to learn. But even then, there's still a lot of lessons that I was able to take as a wrestler into triathlon.

Joanna: I love that from Jonathan. Of course, I mean, my first thought, he nailed it, I was like, “It's those sexy outfits.” I mean, oh come on! The crazy thing is, at least for triathlon, it's gotten better. When I started this like 20 years ago, oh bad, bad bad! And those singlets that they wear in wrestling I'm like, “Ugh, not a good look.” But the thing I was thinking about also was, and he touched on this, it's quick reaction time. When you see those matches, there is so much strategy and quick decision-making that they're doing. And it's very much similar – even though Ironman or half-Ironman, whatever distance is a very long event – there is a lot of strategy and decision-making. We're not trying to win that race in the first five minutes of a marathon. That's when we think we're dying. So we have to be very strategic about what we do on the bike, and on the swim as well, as to set ourselves up for an awesome marathon. So that was very similar, when I was thinking about a wrestling match and a triathlon race.

Vanessa: I am excited to hear this next one. TriDot Ambassador Heather Hodges comes from a marching band background. Let's hear what she has to say about how this activity shaped her as a triathlete.

Heather Hodges: Hi, this is Heather Hodges from Dublin, Pennsylvania. Before I was a triathlete, I was a huge band nerd, and I performed with a drum and bugle corps for two summers. This experience is like professional marching band. You wake up, you practice all day, you eat your meals off of a truck, you sleep on gym floors or on a bus, and you tour around the country for a whole entire summer without going home. The rigor of drum corps really prepared me for being a triathlete. Keeping to a schedule, being accountable, doing your best, even when you really didn't feel like it, has really bridged the gap between being a triathlete and my previous experience with drum corps. Certain things, though, didn't bridge so well. Such as in drum corps, you're basically told what to do, where to go, and then you're responsible for that. But in triathlon, you don't really have that much direction, especially with training. That's why I really latched on to TriDot, because it told me exactly what I should be doing.

I didn’t have to think about it, I just did it. Long days are another thing that transition well between drum corps and triathlon. Drum corps days, in the beginning of the summer when you're learning your show, you're learning basics, getting used to the group, generally average between 10 to 12 hours of rehearsal every day. There's a block in the morning, a block in the afternoon, a block at night. So putting in those long hours on your feet, just going and doing the best you can, really has transitioned into long training days in triathlon land. There were quite a few moments in my triathlon journey, especially starting out, when I thought racing was really hard. And I would look back and say, “I did drum corps. That was the hardest two summers of my life, and I made it through that, so I can definitely do this. I'm prepared for it.” Really digging down deep and finding that mental fortitude has helped a ton, especially when I did my first half-Ironman. There were some really dark times, but I feel like the fortitude that I've built throughout my life in band activities, drum corps, that has all allowed me to really push through those really dark times and come out on the other side being successful.

Joanna: I think all of that was really good from Heather. A couple of things she touched on, of course it comes to mind as far as multitasking. I mean, if I had to play a trombone, and march, and remember where you're going, they're like doing a dance routine. Some of them are kind of dancing, I believe. That seems so difficult, and they do it perfectly as far as form. It's like running. Paralleling running and marching, it's very similar to me. But the multitasking – I was thinking about swimming itself, because that's the number one response I get from people when I'm working with them in the water is, “It's so hard for me to remember to kick in a shoebox, tiny kick, high elbow, keep my head down, breathe,” all of these things that you're trying to do when you're trying to swim an efficient freestyle stroke. They're multitasking. They’re doing all of these things during a band performance, and it's pretty remarkable. And again, I'm just going to say it, the suits. They have got to be sweating insane. I know they are, because I've driven past the high school – she was talking about practicing all day – I have watched; the football team practice two hours and they're off the field. Those poor band kids are on the parking lot of the high school, in uniform, like for six hours. They've got to have endurance levels – I keep thinking I need to show up there with coolers of Gatorade, because I feel so bad for them. It's pretty remarkable how much band performances and those kids are practicing. It's insane.

Vanessa: I would have loved for you to have done that, Jo. I was also a band nerd. I was in a marching band for many years of my life, and I do have to tell you, those suits are made of polyester. They do not breathe. They're the worst thing ever. And you’re right, the hours you put in, there's no nutrition that you get. You don't get to replenish your electrolytes. What Heather was saying is a hundred percent true. You have to dig deep and find your mental fortitude to get through those long “training days”. I'm putting that in quotation marks because it is training, it’s just a different kind of training.

Joanna: It also reminds me, that I have to think, I mean, I'm not musical. My kids are. But we talk about finding your “why” and your love of something. For them, I'm sure when you are musical, the love of playing instrument has got to be you'll do just about anything, because you have such a love for it. Similar to triathlon. People will be like – you've gotten this question, “Why would you do that? No normal person would run a marathon after biking 100 miles.” That's our “why”, that's our love for it. It's the love of the feeling of accomplishment, or the love that it makes you feel mentally better after doing this stuff, or makes you feel like you're successful and that you have self-worth, all of these things. I think that's going to be probably true with every sport we talk about, is finding your “why”, and finding your love of something that you need in your life.

Vanessa: We're going to move over to another individual sport here, which is the sport of tennis. And I actually did not know that TriDot Coach and Ambassador, Julie McPhilomy, came from a tennis background. So looking forward to hearing what she has to say about her tennis journey to triathlon.

Julie McPhilomy: Hi, I'm Julie McPhilomy. I played tennis growing up. I started as a seventh grader on a varsity team at my high school, and I had the opportunity to play in college. Things I learned along the way, it is an individual sport, so having that discipline and that mindset that it’s you against – a lot of times it’s just you against you, or you against that other player. But learning how to define your role, and how you have your attitude, how you play your game, how you strategize, really relates over to triathlon in so many different ways. Each time I think about going out on a race course, I think about how I'm going to do things – my mindset, my things – and how that truly changes the outcome of the day. Certain things that carry over, really is to swimming. I equate it to swimming quite often on body awareness, how to reach for that stroke, or reach for that ball every time I would serve. Or to follow through in a stroke, or follow through in my stroke in tennis. I equate those two things very much the same, even though there is no ball in swimming. But one of the biggest things that I look at from the sport, and from what I’ve learned, is you go play-by-play, or game-by-game, to game-set-match. When you're out on a race course and you're having a dark moment, you go mile-by-mile, discipline-by-discipline, and you start to think that same exact way. And that for me is something that I learned, and I'm grateful to have that opportunity and learning it as such a young person. And how when I get to a race course now, I think often to that stuff, that it's mile-by-mile, and that it too shall pass, just focus on what you're doing at that moment.

Joanna: I love that from Julie. I love watching it. I watch Wimbledon, I watch everything now. I really like to watch it. But what I love is the intensity of it, and how hyped these players will get. I mean, Serena was like my favorite, and she would literally grunt after she hits every time. And I was thinking about – I'm going to confess something. Sometimes when I'm on the bike and like a hard, hard interval, I'll catch myself. Like, it releases the pain. And I know that's what she's doing, when she just yells out after hitting the ball. And I was thinking about how intense, you see these pros at Kona and Nice, just the level of intensity that they are experiencing and that they put into it. The other thing I thought about was, there's a real similarity in the judges in tennis and the – what do we call them in triathlon, the officials? – and the penalties given out, and how mad some of the players will get. I've seen that on the triathlon courses. I've seen them raise a flag or penalty for someone, and, I mean, there'll be a full argument that ensues after this, over whether you were within six feet of the bicycle in front of you, or drafting. So it is a very set and defined set of rules in both sports, that we, you know, I think in triathlon we're getting more and more aware of following all of the rules, and newer rules, so that we don't get penalized during the race.

Vanessa: Absolutely. I think that my favorite thing that Julie had mentioned, in similarity between tennis and triathlon, is that you have to approach tennis play-by-play, and then you have to approach it by game-set-match. And I think that that is a wonderful characteristic that you have to bring from any background that you have, is the ability to forget what just happened. So if you had some bad moment in the swim, in the bike, in the run, you have to get over that, and you have to let it go, and you have to carry forward with a positive mindset. I think that's a definite skill, in learning how to stop your mind from focusing on that negativity and moving forward to be able to progress. Because it is a long day out there on your bike and on the run. It's the similar thing with those tennis matches. You have to have so much focus and mental ability to push forward when things get difficult. So I love that she alluded to that. Now, moving along to our next clip. When my husband PJ was a kid, he had a dream of being a motorcycle racer. So I'm wondering if he had actually followed through with that dream, that he would now be the triathlete in the family. We have here Simon Williams, who's a TriDot Ambassador. He's going to tell us what he learned from racing motorcycles, and how it transferred over to triathlon.

Simon Willliams: Hi, I'm TriDot Ambassador, Simon Williams from Warner Creek, California, and I competed in motorcycle road racing before becoming a triathlete in 2017. When you're racing at speeds up to 170 miles an hour, things can happen very quickly. So visual skills are a necessary tool to be looking well ahead at where you want to go next. The closer in front of us we look, the faster everything seems, and the more uncomfortable we get. For example, when you're driving down the freeway and you look out of your side window, the utility poles nearest you are zipping by. But when you look at the ones further in the distance, it makes it seem that you're traveling much more slowly. These visual skills similarly apply when we're cycling on courses that have downhill sections, and especially those courses that have fast and twisty downhill sections. Places like St. George, where you can easily reach speeds of 50 miles an hour, the further ahead you can look, the slower and calmer everything will seem, which increases your confidence. This skill can also help you in situations where you may be out of your comfort zone. Another phrase from motorcycling is that you go where you look. If you go around a corner a little too fast and start steering at the edge of the road, that's likely where you're headed. However, if you can keep your focus on where you actually want to go, i.e. around the corner, then that's where you'll head. Much like competing at a new location that you haven't been to before, racing at new tracks, you’re usually only allowed a day of practice. So it was essential to learn the course layout as quickly as possible. One visual skill that helped here, which equally applies to cycling on unfamiliar roads, is to look at the vanishing point, which is the furthest part of the road ahead that you can see. If the vanishing point starts coming closer to you, then the corner is tightening up and you should reduce speed. And if it's moving away from you, then the road is straightening up and you can prepare to go faster. But please ride within your own abilities and appropriately for the conditions. There's another term in motorcycle racing called “go fast in the fast parts, slow in the slow parts.” That might seem obvious, but trying to go fast around a slow corner does not usually end well. In training and racing, I always consider the downhill after the climb to be the fast part, and start pedaling harder as I crest a hill to use all that free speed and gain time on the downhill parts. It's surprising how many athletes I see taking a breather on the descent and not taking advantage of this free speed. I hope you found this helpful, and that it will help you become a more confident bike rider.

Vanessa: Well, Simon, I found that extremely helpful! I actually wish that I'd heard this prior to doing the Nice race bike course. I had been attending most of the talks that our TriDot legends had been giving, and had heard the advice at looking where you want to go. I had not thought about how when you look at something that's closer to you, it looks like you're going to be going faster than if you look at something that's going to be in the distance. Which would have been very helpful, because on those tricky descents it seems like you're going really,really fast, and I would have appreciated knowing that if I looked a little bit further ahead – mind you, there were lots of turns in that course, so you couldn't always look ahead – but in the parts where you could, if I had looked just a little bit further ahead, it wouldn't have been as scary in terms of how fast I was going. So I appreciated that. The other thing that I thought was really helpful was learning the course prior to doing it. And that's not just having access to driving it, but looking at those course maps and making sure that you're familiar with where the turns are, where the aid stations are. Knowing all of those things ahead of time is really going to make sure that you are going to attack that course and have a really positive experience up on the bike. So great job, I loved that tip so much.

Joanna: Yeah, I was thinking about what Simon was saying, and the amount of daredevils. I think about motocross racing or motorcycle racing, and that translates to the daredevils we have in triathlon. Some of the people that love the thrill of the bike, and fast racing and technical courses, and those daredevils tend to be the most successful bike riders in triathlon that take the most risks. And I assume it's similar when you're talking about motorcycle racing.

Vanessa: Well, let's hear from Julie Ramsey, who is one of our TriDot Ambassadors. I know roller derby was a major part of her life. Let's hear what she has to say about how skills may have transferred over from roller derby to triathlon.

Julie Ramsey: Hi, this is Julie from Tucson, Arizona, and I competed in roller derby before becoming a triathlete. So even though triathlon isn't a full-contact sport – or at least we hope it's not – I think there were some really good things that transferred over between the two. The most important was getting used to pushing myself out of my comfort zone. Before I started roller derby, I felt really awkward and uncoordinated and not at all athletic. So the idea of strapping wheels to my feet and trying to knock people over at high speed seemed like a really bad idea. But it looked fun, and the players looked fierce, so I decided, “I'm going to be brave, and I'm going to give it a chance.” And there were a lot of moments when it was scary, but I got more comfortable with being uncomfortable, and we do that all the time in triathlon. Another added bonus is that I'm really used to knocking into people when I'm doing sports. So the first time I did a mass-start open water swim, and I kept getting elbowed in the face and people were kicking me, I was like, “No big deal, I'm totally used to that!” But the biggest challenge of triathlon, compared to derby, is that it takes a totally different type of endurance and perseverance. When you're on the derby track, you've got four teammates with you. The periods are two minutes or less, so you're focusing really hard for a very short period of time. There's a lot of action, like you're trying to play offense and defense at the same time, and then you're done. So compare that to going out and doing a three-hour run or doing a 100-mile bike ride. It's just you and the trail, and there's nothing to break up the monotony, and you're all by yourself, and it's just a totally different type of mental fortitude. But I found that for both of them, I can fall back to my mantra of, “I can do hard things.” I keep telling myself that when I'm out running and I feel like my legs are going to fall off, or if I'm on skates and I've got a skater coming up on me real fast and trying to throw a shoulder and knock them off the track. I may be an awkward nerd, I always will be, but I'm also strong as heck. And thanks to the wonder of glitter sunscreen, I can be sparkly, whether I'm skating or doing triathlon. There's room for both.

Joanna: I am fascinated by this. Fascinated. I mean, I had respect for Julie Ramsey, but I have a whole new respect. Because if you've ever watched this roller derby, this is crazy. I mean, this is a whole thing that I could not even fathom doing. Talk about the multitasking, I mean, all the strategy of offense, defense, but they're on roller skates! I can barely roller skate. I mean, the amount of balance you would need to do this. And I was thinking, also, about the hardcore, mentality, and the bravery to even attempt this, and confidence, but the other thing was you have got to be extremely competitive. And that's what's so similar to triathlon. Well, not everyone. I mean, I have a lot of people that come to me and they're like, “I'm not really in it for the competition, I just do it for the fun.” And then they get really competitive. But I think it's the level of competitive spirit that must be, as far as roller derby, can be very similar to a lot of triathletes.

Vanessa: Absolutely. When she was talking, I was thinking, “Oh my gosh, it's so competitive, I would love to do roller derby!” But then I thought about being on roller skates and I'm like, “No. That is definitely not in my wheelhouse.”

Joanna: Not a good idea at my age, no.

Vanessa: Yeah, exactly. But what I do love that Julie said was the mantra that she carried over from roller derby to triathlon, is “I can do hard things.” This is something that I say to myself very often, and it's something that my kids will actually say to me as well. They'll come down when I'm on like a 2x16 threshold ride and I'm like – you alluded to this, Jo, like you're grunting and maybe calling out – and my son will come up to me and he'll be like, “Mommy, you can do hard things!” And I'm like, “Yes, I can.”

Joanna: That's true, when they'll say, “You've got it, Mom. You've got it. You can do this.” And that's all you need to have that mental fortitude.

Vanessa: Now, finally, we're going to hear from our very own TriDot legend, Mark Allen. He has always had a love of the ocean, and he's going to tell us how surfing has impacted his journey as a triathlete.

Mark Allen: One of the sports that I did that was sort of a supplement to swimming, cycling, and running, is surfing. I've been surfing since – oh geez, almost 50 years now. Crazy. But anyway, during my career, once Kona was over I would come back home to where I was living at the time, San Diego, and from basically mid-October until January 1st, I never got in a pool. I would go out surfing a lot. That was such a great supplement to swimming, because it uses slightly different muscles, you're arching your back the opposite direction that you would do cycling and even running. Running can hunch you over a little bit. Cycling, obviously the aero position really hunches you over. When you're paddling on a board, it strengthens all those back muscles to pull your chest back, pull your shoulders back. But on top of that, it was training that was playing. I think that's so important, if people can find alternative ways of training or exercising, especially in the off-season when you don't have races coming up, that work similar muscles, work your cardiovascular. Being in the water, surfing really was multi-leveled. It was time in nature, time to just kind of daydream. Because a lot of time surfing, you're just sitting there waiting for the waves, waiting for the sets. So it really gave my mind a break from focused, concentrated training. And then also, it is cardio. You're sprinting for five strokes or ten strokes, or getting through a set, then you get to relax. You really get that benefit of that sort of super high-end quick effort, and then your heart rates drop down. And as we're learning through research, some of the healthiest hearts are those that have big variations in the heartbeats during a workout, as opposed to a lot of what we do in triathlon, which is very steady training. It was a real good supplement, and it strengthened my muscles for my upper body, and it also, I was rotating in all different directions. So it was kind of like yoga in the water, in the sense that it loosened my back up, loosened my hips up, worked my balance. All things that, in the end, kind of added to that base of fitness that I needed and used and utilized in swimming, cycling, and running.

Joanna: That was great from Mark. I mean, yeah, legend. And it's very interesting to hear about his love of surfing and how long he has done that. And I was thinking, either you love the water or you don't love the water. Growing up a swimmer, it was never like working out. I tell my athletes, “We're going to get you to love it, and it's going to be your water therapy.” When you're doing that amount of breathing in swimming, it's just kind of like yoga practice. It is therapy. It's calming the mind, and I think that's the similarity with surfing. It can be a sense of therapy when you're out there. You’re in the water, and you've heard athletes say, “I feel alive for the first time.” Instead of sitting at a desk for eight hours a day, you're outside, you're in nature, and “I'm feeling alive, I'm feeling young again.” I think of surfing as the same thing, it's a sense of feeling alive. And I love that he was saying, sitting out there on the board, there's a sense of peace you do feel. And I think we all reach that in training and in racing sometimes. You'll be on that bike and you'll have those moments, that you have a realization about life, or about your kids, or about where you're supposed to be and what you're doing in your life. I can see that surfing has given a tremendous amount of enjoyment and peace to Mark, and I think that a lot of triathletes experience that as well.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa: It's Coach Cooldown Tip time, and I'm Vanessa, your Average Triathlete with Elite-Level Enthusiasm! Today on the cooldown, our coach is Kelly Mulvany. Kelly is a retired US Navy flight officer, and now owns AZ Desert Endurance. She also works part-time as an NSCA certified personal trainer at Triplex Training, and she works at a running store called Sole Sports. Kelly is a very accomplished triathlete who has competed in both the 70.3 and the IRONMAN World Championships. She has been on the podium multiple times in both triathlon and running events. In addition to a top-ten finish at Ultraman Arizona. Kelly specializes in coaching beginner to experienced athletes who have wild goals for ultra-distance races in trail running, triathlon, and multi-sport. I feel like I'm in the presence of full-on amazingness here, Kelly. Welcome to the cooldown!

Kelly Mulvaney: Hi, Vanessa! Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here today.

Vanessa: Well, I'm very excited to have you here. Tell me about being a high-altitude search and rescue backcountry volunteer.

Kelly: This was probably one of the first places I learned mental toughness. You don't get to choose the hour or the environmental conditions in which you operate. It's usually about 1:00 a.m., and it's usually in terrible conditions, like a snowstorm, or high winds, or rain, you name it. But I also learned that I may not love it, but I can also function just fine, so long as I have the right mindset about it, right? In those situations, someone else was dependent on me and my team for their life and their well-being, so I didn't really have the luxury of a little self-pity party. But I also learned, and I still continue to learn, that I'm way tougher than even I think I am.

Vanessa: Oh, a hundred percent. I think most people fall into that category when we have a little bit less faith in ourselves than other people do have in us. But man, if you were on the team that was supposed to save me from some crazy risky situation, I think I'd want you to be the team leader, that's for sure. I'm just curious, what elevation is considered to be high altitude?

Kelly: Yeah, it varies. Officially, high altitude is considered to be between about 8,000 and 12,000 feet, with a very high altitude being 10,000 feet and above. But it depends, right? The famous answer, “it depends”. If you were living at sea level and you flew into Denver and went for a hike, you could experience illness, right. So sometimes we would get those calls as well. But typically, as a rescue team, we would call high altitude rescue at treeline. Really, it was more to characterize the type of terrain that we'd be operating on, and thereby what gear we needed to bring.

Vanessa: That’s really crazy. Thank you for sharing that experience that you had. I can only imagine the craziness that went on behind the scenes to make sure that people remain safe and get rescued. Let's shift here to our tip of the day. Can you tell us what Coach Cooldown Tip you would like to share with our audience?

Kelly: Yeah. So my coach tip came to me while I was standing in transition at IRONMAN Canada in Penticton. I was sitting there eating my second breakfast, and had several people walk by and say, “Oh, I wish I would have thought of that.” I said, “I need to share this with everybody!” So my tip is to bring a second breakfast to transition with you. You might not eat it, you might not need it. But then again, you might, right? So we typically eat our first breakfast, our main meal of the morning, three to four hours before the start of our race. That's kind of our rule of thumb, right. That's very carefully planned. But if you show up on race day and the water temperature dips 20 degrees overnight, and IRONMAN, thank goodness, had our health and safety and wellness in mind when they canceled that swim. So now we have to kind of scramble. There was a delay, and then there was a cancel, so we ended up not starting the race, but maybe a couple hours after anticipated. So if you carefully planned your breakfast to be three or four hours before the start of the race, and then your race starts two hours after you planned, the last time you ate something was five hours ago, right? And that's not a great way to start a very long day. So you bring something. It doesn't have to be elaborate. You want something that's not heavy, something that's easy to digest, like maybe a snack bar and a banana, or maybe an extra serving of the nutrition that you are going to use during the day. Just something to top up in that two hours before you do start or hop on the bike. You may not need it, and in that case you can toss it in the trash, or put it in your morning clothes bag and maybe have it afterwards. But it's better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it. And it means you get to start a race fully fueled and ready to go even when there's a delay.

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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