Find Free Speed with Michellie Jones' 6 Recovery Rules

TriDot Podcast Episode 299

Find Free Speed with Michellie Jones' 6 Recovery Rules

Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our Podcast is here to educate, inspire and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together. Together yet.

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. This is Michellie Jones's six recovery rules to find free speed. We all want free speed wherever we can get it and Michellie is going to teach us how to get it through our recovery and I'm very excited to learn from her. Michellie is an Olympic silver medalist, an IRONMAN World Champion, a two time ITU World Champion, and an Xterra World Champion. She's the founder and head coach of Giddyup Multisport and the host of the Giddyup Edge Podcast. So, Michellie, I'm so stoked to just sit under you and learn what can I do in my recovery to get free speed on race day. How are you doing today?

Michellie Jones: I am doing fantastic. I was just getting some free speed a minute ago.

Andrew Harley: That's, that's a spirit.

Michellie Jones: Having a little snooze, which we'll talk about later.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah, I like a snooze. I like a snooze. I don't snooze enough these days, but I like it when I can get it. And excited to talk about it, I am Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack. As always, we'll start off with our fun warm up question. Settle in for our recovery free speed mainset conversation and then wind things down with Coach Michellie answering one of our listener questions on the cooldown. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Announcer: Time to warm up. Let's get moving.

Andrew Harley: Michellie, for our warm up question today, I want to know from you and obviously from our listeners when they can answer online, which sport outside of triathlon would you say has the most impressive athletes?

Michellie Jones: You know what, because I'm a big giddy up person, this will probably come maybe a little bit of a size, but no surprise to those people who know me. I mean equestrians. And I'm not talking the people who are on top. I'm actually talking about the horses.

Andrew Harley: Wow.

Michellie Jones: Think about, think about all the things. Yeah, like think about all the things we ask them to do and their reward is like a pat carrot, a cookie. It's like, you know, when you think about the mindset of what's going through a horse. I mean, I, my, one of my trainers already always told me a horse is going to tell you what they want to do and you can't force it. And I sort of relate that back to triathlon. Like, you have to know your, why you have to, you know, know why you're out there doing something. And, and for a horse, that could be anything. It could be they just, they, they, they want to like, give you what you want or it could be something that they just love doing that you've taught them to do. So. And as I said, it's like their reward is so simple. It always makes me think, you know what, Sometimes, sometimes we overthink the process rather than thinking, you know, you know what, just crossing that finish line, just getting to the start line, just heading out the door. Like, they're like huge steps. So I think it's just a good reminder that you know what we're capable of doing and why we're doing it. And I think horses are such good examples because they're such pleasers and they're so passionate and they're smart, they're intelligent. Um, but yet they're, they're sort of one of these animals that, you know, they're not like a dog, but they actually do have big characters. They can be cheeky. They, they, they definitely can tell you what they don't want to do. So, yeah, I mean, I grew up horse riding and I absolutely love it. And I think a lot of the equestrian sports are also misunderstood. But yeah, and it's like anything, right? A good athlete is a good athlete, a bad athlete is a bad athlete, a good coach is a good coach, a bad coach is a bad coach. It doesn't matter what sport you're in.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, one thing you said, Michellie, that I relate to, I also will do a lot of things for a pat, a carrot or a cookie. So, you know, but no, I love that answer here, Michellie. Definitely not what I was expecting for me. So admittedly this question came out of me watching the finals of Roland Garros, the French Open in tennis over the weekend. I watched the, the, the, the women's final on Saturday, the men's final on Sunday. While I was playing with my daughter and just watching those athletes. For the women going three sets, the men going five sets, the men played five hours and 20 something minutes of tennis. That's not like the tennis. You see old guys playing at the park where they're just hitting the ball over and taking, taking a long five minute break on the changeovers to chat and talk like no, they, they are warrior style, gutting it out point after point after point, sprinting, running, jumping, swinging for 5 hours and 20 something minutes. Just unreal display of athleticism. So as a tennis player that is what I would say here for sure. Triathlon and tennis, man, like those, Those are my 2 responses here for sure that the athletes in those sports and both sports. Michellie I think this is why triathlon appealed to me when I was coming to it. They're both sports where you're out there on your own, it's all on you. Your performance is all on you. You have your team, you have your coaches, you have your training, you have your hitting partners, you have your buddies. Like you know, you have your infrastructure. But once you're out there in the match, once you're out there on the triathlon race course, what happens is all on you. And it's just very few sports are like that in the way triathlon and tennis both are. But the other one I'll give a shout out to Michellie because I am so biased to those two sports is rugby. Anytime I watch a rugby match, just those athletes just physically are so impressive. Like what, what they can do and the conditioning they have, the way they run and almost no wrong answer here, right? Athletes from every sport are impressive in their own way. Just a reminder guys, we're going to throw this warm up question out to you, our audience. This question will appear in the TriDot Community Hub. That's for our TriDot users. If you're not a TriDot user, this question will appear on the “I am TriDot” Facebook group and it will appear on our Instagram account because we want to see what athletes out there other than triathletes would you say are the most impressive to you? No wrong answer unless you say golf. Anything else is on the table. Can't wait to hear what you guys have to say.

Announcer: On to the main set going in 3, 2, 1.

Andrew Harley: On to our main set where Coach Michellie is going to help us find free speed through her six rules for recovery. And Michellie, this, this is a topic that you brought to me as man. I'd really like to talk to our trot audience about this. And, and when I saw your proposed title, you know, your six recovery rules define free speed. You know we talk about recovery and we, and we hear about free speed. And I think when I see the words free speed, I'm, I'm thinking Like, going out and buying new wheels. I'm thinking about, you know, figuring out how to get more aero. I'm figuring out how to get, you know, lighter, you know, shoes on the run or more electric. Like, I just. The connection between recovery and free speed caught my eye immediately, and I was very excited to get you on the show to talk about this. What. What's the connection here? Why is this a topic you wanted to bring to our athletes?

Michellie Jones: Well, I definitely wanted to flip the script because, like, that's what everyone knows. And if you know me as a coach, you know that, like, I talk a lot about free speed. And, you know, it's just about the intervals. It's not just about the, The. The long endurance sessions that we do. I mean, they usually get all the glory, for sure, but the truth is, speed is often found when you're not training and people are like, really? How? Well, you know, it's like we're talking about recovery because smart recovery is free speed, and everyone can do it. And it's. I mean, some of it has a cost, for sure, but then ultimately it's like, you've got to think differently. And I often tell my athletes, like, the details matter. Everyone swims, bikes, and runs.

So what can we do outside that that's going to help us improve our training? Well, if we can recover better the quality of our training. And it's like, that's one of the reasons why I love TriDot, because it's all about, like, not doing more than you need to do and being efficient in everything that you do. And. And like, every workout has a purpose. And I think people often neglect that recovery component of how, you know, rest repair equates to better race day performance and better training performance. So. Yeah.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah. Well, very excited to hear what your six rules are to help us recover, because it's. And. And I. I've. I've heard it on the Podcast from so many different coaches, from Dr. B.J. Leeper, who comes on and talks about physical therapy and functional. And just there's always this constant reminder that we as athletes, we want to go out and pound our workout and have it look good on Strava. And we approach our workouts with just the ferocity of a warrior getting ready for battle, because we think that's where we get better and we improve. No, you get better and you improve during your recovery.

Michellie Jones: This is sort of the thing that frustrates me sometimes the most as a coach, but I've learned over the years, it's like, if I don't do my homework before I do a session. And I see so many athletes, like for example, an athlete will get on a plane and travel a long distance and they got like commitments. Maybe it's a family commitment, maybe it's a work commitment. And then they've just say they've sat on the plane for like 10 hours, six hours, whatever it is. And then they go out and they just head out to the hotel door and they just run. And I'm like, do you realize how much damage you just did sitting there?

Andrew Harley: Wow.

Michellie Jones: And now, and now like you're going out and doing a run without thinking about, oh, maybe I should have spent like two or three minutes doing something before I actually did that. And I find people do that a lot, right? They see the workout and they're like, I've got to get all the workout. And I'm always like, spend a few minutes, you know, doing things that can help you, whether it's activation, whether it's running drills, you know, whether it's like some stretching that you feel like gives you the biggest bang for the buck. Because I talk about that a lot because, because we are often time crunched. But you know, spending that little bit of time of capsule release, making sure that you know you're working on your weaknesses like that's a game changer because you're gonna, you're doing more good than harm. But if you just head out the door, yeah, you can get away with it nine times out of 10. So at one time where it's like, ah, I tell the athlete, I go, well, that's a good lesson. I wish you didn't have to learn it. But yes, spend. If you have a 40, you only have 40 minutes allocated of time available. Spend at least like 5 minutes doing something that's going to benefit you. Maybe not in that session, maybe in that session, but that will definitely benefit your overall long term longevity.

Andrew Harley: Michellie, I a hundred percent always have been that athlete that when work gets a little hectic or family life gets a little busy and something's got to get pushed to the side. I get my swim biker running, I don't do my recovery and my mobility work and that kind of stuff, it takes some time. It takes intentionality getting in the schedule and yeah, so I start missing the details. And I imagine a lot of our listeners that way too. And so today is going to be a huge reminder to us to work these rules. And these are rules. They're not guidelines, they're rules for a reason. This is going to be a good wake up call episode for a lot of us. So Michellie, let's get into it. What is Michellie Jones's recovery rule number one.

Michellie Jones: Prioritize sleep like a key workout. How's that one? Prioritize sleep like it's a key workout. And there's another, a number of reasons why sleep is so important. It's like, you know, it's, and I think this is the biggest one for most people because a lot of people don't get enough sleep. And you know, that's like leaving free speed on the table. You know, aim for as much as you can. But also, you know, if you can get a little nap in with the kids, you know that's going to increase your testosterone. So that's going to like then speed up your recovery. And it's like, you know, it's going to give your immune system a boost. I mean, there's so many things to that like relates to sleep. And you know, you have to learn to relax. And I think that's the biggest component when people don't get a good quality sleep. And that's why I say, you know, do something like five to ten minutes perhaps before you actually go to bed. And it could be some yoga breathing exercises, it could be whatever, whatever it is, whatever it is that you feel that will relax you and get to the point that like, okay, I'm chilled, I'm switched off their brain because it's really hard to switch off their brain. And I think sleep will then drive, as I said, that hormonal balance, which is super important, the muscular repair and I mean even mental clarity, I mean your body doesn't get strong during this session, but it adapts and it adapts after when you're ready to rest. So make sleep a routine, you know, just like you're training. As I said, you know, sleep is like a key workout. So you should prioritize it in that way because I think it's one of the most underrated performance boosters we have. And it's so easy, right? But sleep doesn't always come easy. You know, it's like we're under a lot of stress and you know, if you are over training, you're going to get night sweats, you know, you're going to get elevated heart rate. You know, there's so many things. So I think the secret is like, if you only have so many hours of sleep, let's make sure it's good quality sleep. And if you can like during the weekend, if you can like you know, if you've got young kids and they've got to take a little nap, it's like, you know, make it a game too. But yeah, and, you know, sitting out outside for five or 10 minutes and just quickly getting, getting a little bit of a snooze, you know, every minute that you can is basically a minute of free speed.

Andrew Harley: I think we forget, like, you know, we, we plug in our laptop, we in our phone, we plug in all of our devices, and the longer you leave them on, the more of it. We plug in our Garmin watches, you know, that the longer you leave it on the charger, the more energy it has, and the longer you put yourself on the charger and the more energy you get back. And I mean, just, it's kind of like our fueling too, right? Like, you know, fuel is food is fuel, food is energy, and sleep is energy. And just I love how you're pointing out that the number of things that we, Every, every system of the body benefits from sleep, right? Every system gets a reset when we go to sleep. And, you know, if we get that once at night, great. If we get that once a night and once at some point in the day because you napped a little bit, great. It's. It's all helpful. And yeah, I, I love you bringing this as point number one because so, so many triathletes, right, Just, just with busy lives, busy schedules, all this training to do, and then we sleep six hours and feel like, oh, that's good enough. Yeah. I mean, the difference between six hours and eight hours, yeah, that's substantial.

Michellie Jones: Yeah. And sometimes that's the reality too. Sometimes the reality is like, that's all the sleep that you got. So I think, as I said, spending some time to really make sure you're having good quality sleep. I mean, obviously if you're younger, you can get away with a lot, but, you know, as we get older and then we get those hormonal changes, you know, it's much harder, harder to get the quality of sleep that we need. So, you know, it's really important that you, you create good habits, you know, before you go to sleep. That way you're getting the quality of the sleep that you need. Because in an ideal world, we all would get, like, lots of sleep, but we don't live in an ideal world, unfortunately. So make sure you prioritize your sleep. Like, it's like, it's a key workout. And I think if you think of it like that, then you're like, sort of like turning that Little brain on that's going, oh, my goodness. Like, that is so true. Because sometimes the most obvious thing or a good reminder, you know, I always have good reminders all the time for my athletes. Like, oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, maybe we should do more of that. And as a coach, like, I'm the same way. It's like, okay, well, maybe I'm saying something, but they're not really hearing it. How can I say it in a way that's gonna make, like, that little brain go, all right, that was right. Coach MJ Knows what she's talking about. Coach MJ. I could actually listen to coach MJ a little bit more.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. She's won a few races and knows a few things. So, yeah, my. I think my hardest thing, Michellie here is just turning the brain off at night. And you referenced that, like, just. Just. Do you know what can you do in those last five, 10, 15, 30 minutes before you go to bed to help yourself fall asleep quicker?

Michellie Jones: And even if it's a little ginger lemon tea.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, there you go.

Michellie Jones: You know, it's like, yeah, whatever it is that's going to help you. So you just got to find what it is. And it may take a little bit of practice, but, you know, meditation, yoga, some activation, some tea. It's like, whatever it is, you know, it's. It's really important that you do prioritize it. If. And, you know, as I said, you know, we don't live in the real world, but prioritize. Prioritize it as much as you can. For sure.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. The two things that have helped me the most as somebody with an active brain that doesn't turn off well at night is phone down. Like, once, I'm back in the bedroom and I'm not working anymore, I'm not like, just phone on the nightstand. Plug it in. Like, there's. I don't need to do anything there, Andrew.

Michellie Jones: I say take it one step further. Put that phone, like, outside the bedroom. One thing, like, as a professional athlete, like, I prioritize sleep like a champion. Like, literally after a swim session, even if it was, like, five, 20, 30 minutes, you know, whatever session I did, if I had some time, and it's really hard to switch off your brain. Like, it's really hard, you know, but if it's. As I said, if it's a few minutes, that's better than zero minutes.

Andrew Harley: Let's move on to Michellie Jones's recovery. Rule number two. What do we got?

Michellie Jones: Rule number two, you know, we talk about fueling for performance. But you've got a fuel for recovery. So that's my rule number two, like, fuel for recovery. And recovery starts the exact moment that that session ends. Right. And it's not like, you know, I'm going to get in my car, I'm going to take a shower, I'm going to, like, drive to work, you know, really, you should get that nutrition in as soon as possible, but definitely within 30 minutes, you know, and it could be protein. How easy is it to make a protein shake? It doesn't matter. Wherever you are, you can have a bottle of water, you can mix some protein in. Boom. You know, some carbohydrates, whether it's like some electrolytes that have a little bit more carbs in it. I mean, whatever it is, you want to make sure that the timing is, like, as soon as possible. Like, literally. I did an interval, like a track session today, and, you know, I walked into. To my house. Like, the first thing I did is got that protein out, and then beside it, I had, like, some electrolytes, you know, so making sure. And then I went with. And it's like. And I think the other thing is, like, don't skip real food. It's like, real food has such good purpose. And. Yeah. So I don't treat my protein shake as a. A food. I treat it as a recovery component. And I think sometimes that's where people get difference because, you know, that they'll throw all this stuff in. Oh, I've got to throw all this sugar in. And I'm like, you know, Or I've got to, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, like, it's great. I mean, I think it's good that you. You can do that. But also, remember, it's like, you've got to get real food in. In other ways as well after that recovery. Because the reason is, okay, we need to rebuild muscle, and we need to replenish those glycogen levels and hydrate. We've got to hydrate, as always. And, like, don't hydrate with just straight water, because that's just going to flush all the essential electrolytes out of your system. So I think it's like these small habits really make big gains later. So, you know, prioritize getting it in as quickly as you can and making sure you're getting, like, real food in. Like, one of my favorite things, like, after a long run, like, I'll have a protein shake, and then I'll make, like, an omelet, and I'll throw like, like I'm, I love egg whites so I'll throw like a bunch of egg whites in there. I might throw some like bacon. I might show some spinach, some cauliflower, you know, a little bit of feta, some avocado. Because then I, you know, you got to get good fats too. You know, making sure you are getting the fats. You know, I always tell people, you know, we, we fuel for performance because we're a high performance car. So don't forget to fuel that high performance car. You know, it gets to like sit in the garage and like sleep and then you'll fuel it. So make sure you are fueling for a recovery. And you know, often we're in such a rush again it's always about work time crunched. But it's very easy within that 30 minute window is to have like just some protein powder with water. You can do some overnight oats with some chai seeds as well. I mean there's lots of ways but you know, don't skip out on it and don't treat it as your, your only fuel source. I mean some people love protein shakes as a fuel source. I'm sort of the opposite way. It's like, I treat it like, okay, this is my recovery component. Then I'm going to have real food for the, to sustain my energy levels to also speed up my recovery and getting like real food in. I think one of the biggest things that I learned about like fueling for recovery when I look at my plate, let's see how much color it has.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah, A hundred percent. And then love that approach.

Michellie Jones: It's got to have. Yeah. And based on like what type of workout you did too. Like obviously if you know it's, you have to like really replenish the glycogen because you know you've really done like a long hard session. Like what does my plate look like? You know, it's like where does that carbohydrates, those protein and the fats, what does it look like? And it's gotta be colorful. We don't want it to be bland in color, we want it to be colorful because that, that means you know, you're actually getting lots of different sources of food, whether it's a plant source, whether it's an animal, whether it's like an oil or like some type of fat source as well. So you know, make sure your plate looks like an athlete plate. So it's got to have the portions have to be based on the type of workout that you did. And it's the same thing, you know, when you're fueling for performance. You know, it's like, what if I'm doing an IRONMAN and I'm doing IRONMAN training? You know, make sure I'm doing the fuel that's going to necessitate that I get through the session and then I can recover really, really efficiently by doing everything that I need to. As I said, replenish the glycogen, repair the muscles and hydrate.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Michellie, I love how holistic you're being with this because I think the messaging for average athletes has sunk in finally that everybody understands. I do a workout, I need protein.

Michellie Jones: Want. I wanted to throw like one more in, but I wanted to throw it in right now because, sure. One thing that, that, that I have found that's underutilized is looking what's in. Inside your hood, what's under the hood. And that's like what the blood is doing. What does your blood profile look like? I think it's like, I've been using it a lot the last couple of months and it's amazing how many female athletes I have that are so low in iron. Like significantly low. And if we hadn't done that test, it's like we would never have known that they were as low as they were. So I think, you know, recovery is like, yes, protein, right. It's carbohydrates, but it's also knowing what's happening inside. Because what I wanted to bring this up because, like, how do we improve and increase our testosterone? Well, sleep's gonna help so we can actually see if we improve our sleep patterns and then retest with. Now we're starting to like, put improvements into place. And there's so many. I use actually Rhythm Health. They're a subscription company, but, you know, you can do one month, you can do six months. And it's been really helpful as a coach and my athletes because it's really enlightening because they will then go over and do a personal one on one call with you based on the numbers and they look at it in terms of performance. And we've gone so far as like, okay, two weeks before a major race, let's do another a test so we can see what the taper needs to look like based on what the blood numbers that blood profiling is going to tell us. And then we test like the day before because you don't need much blood. It's so small and so easy. And then we see, I mean, we don't get the results, of course, straight away. But we can see how good was our taper in terms of our blood health. So I think, and you know, in the middle of hard training, you know, it's just good reminders. It's really good reminders. Like, okay, what do my numbers look like? I'm in this hard training block. How can I improve it through, as I said, sleep and food and sometimes supplement. Supplementation is needed. I mean, I'd rather try to like, as I said, like the whole food approach. But you know, sometimes, you know, you do need supplements but like use the supplement supplements in the right way and an informed way based on that blood profiling. So yeah, so maybe that's like 2 point A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. B. But yeah, so I think that's like such an often neglect and it's so inexpensive now and so easily accessed. I mean, because, you know, living here in the US it's so complicated dealing with the health system and it's like, you know, I love the fact that, you know, the company like Rhythm Health is looking at your blood numbers to improve performance. And that's free speed right there.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, it's free. It's free speed. And it's, I mean, a peek at what's going on in your blood is a peek at what's going on in your body right at any given moment. And that's where elite athletes and the pros tap into that for sure. And age groupers can as well. Like you said, that price point is coming down well. And relating all this back to Michellie's recovery rule number two, fueling your recovery. Right. I mean, this is what I like about everything you've said with this rule is it's holistic. It's not just pounding that protein shake. It's, it's the, the protein shake plus what's in your next meal, plus making sure the things on your plate are from nature and colorful and full of nutrients and, and then it's knowing into the blood what your body needs. And so yeah, and the appropriate amount.

Michellie Jones: Of the ratio of fats, protein and carbs, like that's another important component. Like, just like performance and recovery, I mean, they're sort of related because, you know, performance, nutrition is definitely going to help you and give you free speed. But yeah, eating for recovery is just important. And I mean, that's the one, the biggest thing. Like you see so many athletes, oh, but I'm eating so clean. But you're not getting enough calories. And I think that's, that's Another thing that, like, I think when I'm talking to athletes, it's like, oh, but you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And you break it down and you're like, but you're not getting enough because, you know, you're expending all this energy and you know that leads to injury. It leads to all sorts of other things as well. And it's like, you know, it's like, it's a hard conversation sometimes to have with athletes because, you know, sometimes endurance sports does have a history of eating disorders, but it's like it's teaching athletes that food has a purpose and calories matter. And I think that's the big difference, I think between, like, performance, we don't talk in terms of calories. We talk in terms of carbs for fueling. So for recovery, sometimes we gotta talk about calories. Yeah, I know you're like eating super clean, but are you getting enough calories? Are you getting enough iron sources? And if you're a plant based, it's hard. As an endurance athlete, it's hard. If you're a plant based, can you do it? Yeah, for sure. But you have to really make sure that what you're doing is working. And that's why I think that that combination of making sure you are knowing what's under your, under your hood, getting your blood numbers is a part of that equation.

Andrew Harley: Michellie Jones, what is your recovery rule number three to help us as athletes get free speed?

Michellie Jones: Well, I don't know if any. I'm hoping your listeners will know who Greg LeMond is.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Famous cyclist.

Michellie Jones: Tour de France. Yeah, Tour de France cyclist. Yeah. So good friend. And he always gave me the best advice. He's like, scheduling true rest days. And it's like, for me as a coach, you know, active recovery is so important, particularly as we get older. And, you know, that's one question I get on. Coach MJ, why haven't you, like, scheduled any actual recovery days? Well, it has a purpose in its place. And sometimes active recovery needs to go into its place. It needs to happen because it's going to help get the blood going. It's going to get rid of the lactic acid. You know, it's like that. And I, and I talk to my athletes a lot about like, like there's so much talk about Zone 2 training, but people don't really understand the difference between zone two training because you have zone two at the higher end, which that's aerobic strength base building. And at the lower end of zone two. That's your recovery. And I think often people like, but I was in zone two. But which part of zone 2 were you in?

Andrew Harley: Were you flirting in zone three or were you really relaxing in zone two?

Michellie Jones: Well, yeah. And zone 2 has basically two different purposes. And most people will go more into that upper zone 2 on their active recovery. And that's why, like, a true rest day includes active recovery, because you gotta make sure you're in the lower end of zone two. So you are getting the recovery benefit rather than, yeah, like, you need that aerobic strength, but there's a purpose for everything. And I think a lot of athletes don't understand the difference between what zone to that upper and the lower zone actually is for. And of course, you know, real rest days. Yeah, like Greg Lamond, like, when I was training as a pro and I just was struggling a little bit to get like my cortisone down a little bit because that's the other thing. You know, your cortisone hormone will take a big hit if you're constantly, like, going hard all the time. And he, he put me on a program for a couple of months of three days training, one day complete rest, two days of training, one day a complete rest. And like, I'm all for rest days because, like, complete rest days as well as your active recovery. But it has to have purpose and it can't be. And you know, sometimes for an age group athlete, it's like, I'm on vacation. Well, don't stress about getting your workout in, like, then, like, yeah, exactly, because I got to get my workout. You know, a week off training can be very beneficial. And I often encourage my athletes during the season to take a week off. Here a week off, there a week off. You know, depending on the season, like after a big race, it's like, okay, yeah, I'd like you to do some active recovery, but it's okay to take a couple of days off. And they're like, no, no, no. It's like, it's hard because we love training and we want to keep training, but, you know, you have to make sure that you're not one of those athletes that we all are. Like, we're all go getters. Right. Obviously we're highly motivated, but recovery days aren't lazy days. It's not like, don't guilt trip yourself over a day off because they are essential and, you know, a full day. And it's like, funny because when I Give my athletes, you know, you got the whole week off. And I'm like, I'll put on the program. You can do anything but swim, bike and run.

Andrew Harley: Wow.

Michellie Jones: And I. Yeah. And I think people don't understand why I do it sometimes. I mean, they sort of do, but it's also your nervous system needs to rest, you know, and you're reducing that long term burnout. Because I think that's, you know, I get a lot of new athletes that come in and they're like so excited and they want to train, train, train, train. And I'm like, you know, just chill out a little bit. And I think we sort of live in a society for instant gratification.

Andrew Harley: Sure.

Michellie Jones: And it's like, so it's important to like, yeah, sometimes you've got to step away as hard as it is. And you know, I have a rule with my athletes, like when they get sick, like they've got to do 48 hours of nothing and then they do a 20, 30, 40 plan. So on the third day they're allowed to do usually like swimming. I sort of let them do that on like day five or six. Just be. Just because of the nature of swimming and how it does suppress your immune system a little bit. But you know, when you still want to get your immune system going. So it's like 48 hours of rest, then it's 20 minutes of biking or running, then it's 30 minutes of biking or running and then you can get back into the pool. So, yeah, so, you know, rest, rest days are important and they have purpose and, you know, you need to have them. And we all hate having them, that's for sure, because a lot of us love doing it. But it's like, don't feel guilty. And I think that's the biggest thing. We've got to learn not to feel guilty. Because true rest days are training. They really are.

Andrew Harley Michellie, what I really love about this tip overall is what I think we can do is we know what our next race is. Often we know what our next goal is. Right. Whether it's achieving a certain time at that half IRONMAN or being on the podium or in the top 10 at my local sprint or Olympic, like, you know, we, like you said, we're driven, so we have our next goal. And when I see that working on the calendar and I feel like, man, I could really use an off day today, I'm thinking about that goal. Well, if I take that day off today, is that going to put me in jeopardy of not being in the top 10 like I want, or being under five hours like I want, or being under 13 hours like I want. And, and the answer is no.

Michellie Jones: But Andrew, if you consistently like, skip workouts, that's, that's a totally different conversation.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

Michellie Jones: That's a different conversation. But it's like, yeah, it's okay. And you know, as a coach, I'm here to answer the tough questions. Hey, coach, you know, I'm not feeling as motivated. It's like, you know, I'm a little run down. It's, I'm here to answer those questions. And you know, people have often talked to, I talk about like the seven minute rule that like, sometimes it's a lot longer than that if you're trading for an eye, man. But if I go out and seven minutes, in seven minutes, I still feel like, what the hell am I doing out here doing this session? Because it's horrible, then it's time to turn around. Usually after seven minutes, I'm like feeling like, oh, oh, I'm getting into it. But it's like, you know, being honest with yourself, having that honest conversation. Don't be afraid to engage a coach. Have that conversation, conversation. And you know, when there is a rest day, it's like, and I, I said to an athlete this week, I go, well, you look really tired. Like you need a rest day. When do you want it? And they're like, and they're like, oh, it works out better on this day. I'm going, no, you need to do it now. And I get caught up in that trap the same time. Yeah, like, oh, yeah, I planned it in like a couple of days, but no, I need it now. And it's like, you know, being honest with like when you need it and being able to let go, which is really, really hard.

Andrew Harley: Like, I get it. I love that.

Michellie Jones: Really, really hard. Like, you've got to let go. And just because something is structured on your program doesn't mean it's a good choice if you are getting the signals that are like, you know, even breaking up the season. Like, I had a conversation with an athlete, reason I go, look, you've got too many races and you're not doing the training and you're not allowing, not only you're not doing the training that you need to be successful at those, those, those a races now you're not recovering enough as well because you haven't taken the time. And then all of a sudden there's another race and another race and another race. And yeah, like I love racing, but there's a place and yeah, and I get like, some people, like, that's their social time is going to a race and it's like, and mentally it's like really good for them. But like, as a coach, I've got to sit them down and go, look, this is your, A race and you've got an IRONMAN and you've got all these other races and it's like if you're not recovering and you're not doing the load that you need to do to get ready based on the performance goals that you want, it's like you're not going to be happy because you're going to fail and then you're going to be like miserable and you're like, well, why did I put all this time and effort in? Well, you've got to put the right time and effort in and you've got to allow for those, those periods when, you know, it may not be scheduled, but you've got to have that conversation with yourself, have conversation with the coach and go, you know what, I scheduled it here or I need it. You know, it is important. Communication is, is everything. And as I said, you know, as a coach, if I physically see an athlete or, or hear something when I ask them, you know, how'd the week go? Or I look at the data and I'm like, ah, it just doesn't, it's not like looking the way that I want it. It's not getting that nice performance increase right now. I mean, obviously there's going to be some decreases based on where you are in your training phase. But yeah, rest is training and we've got to like, let go of the fact that it's, it's not really a.

Andrew Harley: Rest day, it's a free speed date.

Michellie Jones: Yeah, it's a free. That's. Maybe we name it. It's not a rest day, it's a free speed day. I like that.

Andrew Harley: I, you know, I have to talk about this for just a minute and we'll, we'll spend a minute on this and then we'll move on to recovery rule number four. But try dot. A lot of athletes are surprised. They come to TriDot. They start training with TriDot and they don't get a full rest day. The algorithm largely, unless you tell it to. And you can, in the settings, you can say, I want a rest day on X day. But on the, yeah. And you get this from your athletes, hey, why don't I have a rest day? And biologically, your body in the data doesn't need it. And that's because TriDot not giving you junk miles. It's not giving you too much intensity. It's balancing the intensity between swim, bike and run all through the week.

Michellie Jones: Week.

Andrew Harley: It's placing the workouts on your calendar so intelligently that your hard swim days and your hard bike days, your hard run days are balanced so well. You're per, per the training rhythm. You don't need one. And I can go 6, 7, 8, 9 weeks brushing my training and not have a rest day and be fine. But I can also have a month where the life stress creeps up. I'm not sleeping as well because we have a lot going on and all of a sudden I need a rest day or two or three. And it's not training's fault. It's just because life. Right. And it's just because of the way my body is handling what's going on in my life. And that's what Michellie's talking about here is, is she can see an athlete's data. She can look at athlete in the face on a call and tell, yeah, they just need a day off today. And that's okay. And, and there's certain. You can't quantify that. Right. And, and for, for the algorithm on. Try that. So try. That's not going to give it to you. You have to know when to take it. And a coach like Michellie can certainly help with that.

Michellie Jones: That, and I love that because I had an athlete exactly when I woke up this morning. Why don't I have any rest days? And I'm like, well, active recovery, having the session, the sessions appropriately spaced, etc. Etc. Etc. So yeah, you don't need it until you do. Yeah, exactly. And you know, as you said, you know, sometimes it's a life component, sometimes it's a physical and a physical component or just like go on vacation and chill. Don't worry about it, like, do whatever you can.

Andrew Harley: Michellie, what is your recovery rule number four to help us find free speed.

Michellie Jones: Master the mobility minutes. And I've already sort of mentioned this early spending like, you know, five minutes before you go out on a run, spending five minutes before you swim on some shoulder health. You know, mobility isn't like I always tell, like I always tell it's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's your daily insurance policy. And I think, you know, as we get more mature, you know, it's like my homework list gets longer and longer. It's like, like, I know if I'm going to go run hard, if I don't do my mobility. Yeah, like, I can go do it. But, you know, I am increasing the risk of injury, as we talked about earlier. But it's like, I'm also not performing to my potential by not doing that mobility. You know, I've. I've got to make sure the glutes are firing, you know, and if you have a injury history, it's like, you know, your body's already told you, okay, if you don't look after your carbs, I'm going to yell at you. If you don't look after your Achilles, I'm really going to yell at you, you know, and then, you know, you have plantar fasciitis and, you know, your glute meat. Like, most people think about their glutes, but they forget about, I think, one of the most important parts of your glute, that glute meat. I think as a triathlete, it's so neglected because I think people don't quite understand how important it is because then, you know, you get that piriformis, glute me, tightness, which can lead to, like, tears, labrum tears in particular. You know, it's always interesting, interesting. It's like when you're looking at athletes and everyone sort of goes through a phase and it's like, because we're in the aero bars, right, that's putting a huge strain on the glutes, the hamstrings, that whole chain, that posterior chain. So it's really important that, you know, you spend a few minutes on it. I mean, in an ideal world, like 10 or 15 minutes, I'd be very happy. Okay. I mean, you don't have to spend a lot of time, but you need to do something and, you know, trying to put it in place where it's going to give you the biggest bang for the buck, that free speed again. You know, for me, my mobility minutes are spent definitely before my hard run workouts, definitely before I go to bed, just because I know I'm going to sleep better. And, you know, it's going to help, for one, loosen you up. Like, you know, I'll get athletes like, oh, my hip flexor is getting really tight. Yeah, because, like, you're neglecting it. I mean, that's the other, I think, like, that's the other thing that, like, you get lower back. Hey, have you been, like, looking after your hip flexor? If you don't look after it, it's. It's going to really yell at you. And, you know, it's like, it's important to, like, as triathletes that we, we loosen up our stiff hips, that we activate our glutes, and, you know, we, we move like, really efficiently through a full range of motion. And then you look as you like. As we get older, we've got that neuromuscular connection where the brain and the muscle, like, they're a little bit slower to react. So we've got to make sure that, you know, we're doing some neuromuscular, like, just basic stuff, like balance stuff. You know, it's going to keep those niggles at bay. And it's, you know, as I fit, as I said, as an athlete and a coach, we're always talking about efficiency, efficiency in the pool, efficiency on the bike, efficiency on the run. And those mobility exercises are game changers because it's going to save you energy and it's going to equate to more power gained. And then of course, that leads to free speed. And, you know, you don't have. And I think the rule is, like, you don't have to overdo it, but don't, don't neglect it because it'll turn around and kick you in the butt. And we're like, we're all human. Like, there'll be times when I'm like, you know, I have this soreness and, you know, or I have an injury and it's like, this is what happened because I neglected my mobility minutes. You know, it's like, it's, it's really important. It's like, you know, I talk a lot about putting money in the bank. This is definitely putting money in the bank that you, that you're going to use all the time. So you've got to keep topping up those mobility minutes.

Andrew Harley: I think the most tangible examples of this is the run drills. Try. That gives you before every run workout, right? Every run workout where we're giving you a handful of run drills to do. Those aren't just there, you know, to just warm you up like that. They're. They're your mobility minutes like Michellie's talking about. And there's, there's been studies done, Michellie, where they, they took cohorts of similar athletes training for the same event, following the same training plan. And one, you know, half the cohort was doing run drills before and after the, the workouts, and the other group wasn't. And the, the, the performance improvement in the group doing the activation drills was substantially higher than the group not doing Them. And the only difference between these two cohorts of athletes was one was doing mobility, the other one was not. And, and so it's free speed.

Michellie Jones: You can usually knock out the. TriDot run drills, like in three to five minutes.

Andrew Harley: Absolutely.

Michellie Jones: And I, and, and that's the key. Like, when I think about. And I'm giving the athletes the homework, it's like, okay, the shoulder health for me is number one for swimming. Plus, you know, if you do some, like, shoulder health, then you can also incorporate a little bit of technique with bands. So, so you're getting a bonus. Like, you, you like helping your mobility with your shoulders. You're. You're working on your technique and, you know, you are working on a little bit of strength. And then like, in terms of biking, you know, it's like, I think that's probably the one that most people neglect in terms of activation, because, you know, it's like you can with certain things, but then you can't.

So it's like, it's making sure that, you know, that's where I think the bike is more a little bit about, you know, flexibility, because we are in the aero bars, so, like, don't skip on some of those. Like, but, you know, you're still going to be using your glutes. So, like, glute activation is important, but we. I think that's the one that I neglect most in terms of pre training, but I definitely will include some aspects of what I need to do on the bike in my overall mobility minutes. And I think running, I think, yeah, that's like the key those, the running drills. But for me, it's like, like capsule release because I'm quite tight in the, in the ankle joint. So that's really important. For me, the glute activation is like, super important. Making sure I am, like, engaging those muscles and waking them up and activating them, because, you know, as we get older, it's like we want to make sure that our mobility is, is, is efficient. And as I said, you know, that neuromuscular connection is an important thing just for pure balance.

Andrew Harley: Michellie, we have two more. This is Michellie Jones's recovery rule number five to help us find free speed. What is this one?

Michellie Jones: Compression, cold and contrast. So, you know, it's like the nice thing these days. It's like we have things like Normatec boots, right? So you can do that pre workout, you can do that post workout. And then of course, you also can think about cold therapy. You know, it's like for me, ice baths I don't think people know enough about ice bars because the temperature has to be precise. So it's like, for me, it's like, yeah, like, like I think cold therapy has its place for sure. But just remember, like, too cold is going to do the opposite to what you actually want it to do. So definitely a little more research is needed by most athletes when they are doing like maybe an ice bath. Because, you know, there's definitely science out there that tells you that if you go too cold, then it's definitely not. And you know, that contrast, which I personally love because I actually love getting into a hot therapy, whether it's like a hot bath and you know that. Also what I love about like having a hot bath after you actually train, that's also helping you acclimatize, you know, because it's keeping, it's, it's raising your body temperature. So it's like, not only is like, you know, if you do like the hot and cold, if you just do the hot in terms of, of like how your performance can get free speed, it's like, you know, you're keeping your body temperature up and that's going to help you adjust when you go to a hot and humid climate. But yeah, I'm more of a bath person than a cold person, a cold bath person. But definitely like ice, like on injuries, on soreness. Like, you know, one thing I always recommend is having like a little cup frozen of ice or some ice cubes. And I'll literally like, if I have like a sore calf or something, I'll literally like get an ice cube and do a little ice massage, put it in the hot can, do the little ice massage, put it in the hot, do a little ice massage. So very easy to really do it in a way that's going to help with recovery, especially after those hard sessions. And you know, even I think the, the one thing people forget is after races, it's like, I was going to bring this up when we were talking about fueling for recovery because at a race so many people, like, it would be so easy just to pack a protein shake in, in your transition bag. It's like everyone like, it's like all of a sudden the switch is all turned off and they forget how to recover after a race. It's like, make sure you have some sort of source of recovery. And it's the same thing with like, when you are like the compression, the cold and the contrast. Like, make sure you're doing that after your hard workouts. And yeah, it's It' I mean, it's like, for me, sometimes it's like, oh, I wish I did more of that because I think this is the one when you're most time crunched that you neglect. I mean, getting in some Normatec boots, that's pretty easy. If you're sitting in front of the tv, like, that's pretty easy. But like, physically, you know, doing that, that contrast therapy of hot and cold, sometimes that's a little bit harder, but as I said, make it a little bit easier. Cold shower, hot shower, cold shower, hot shower. You know, it's like there are ways to incorporate it. And I think people forget. And, you know, there's so many, like, great therapy products out there. You know, you have the vibration guns, right? They're really, they're really good as well. So, like. But, you know, it's no point buying them if you're not going to use them. You know? Another one that I love is Muscle Stim. And I don't mean tens. I mean, like, tens is good. It's like, like it's. I mean, it's pain relief, but it's, it's not going like, deep into the muscle fiber where you've got, like, some really good products out on the market that aren't a tens device, but they are muscle stimulation, and that'll go way deep into the muscle fiber. And, you know, it's such a good tool, and I think it's so underutilized in so many ways. I will tell you a story. I was in Kona one year and an athlete was having some knee issues, and I'm like, look, here's my muscle stim device. This is how I want you to put the pads on. I want you to do it for 20 minutes, four to five times a day. For the leading up to the race, she had like, three days before the race, and she's like, oh, my goodness. It was amazing because blood flow is everything. Like, when you talk about, like, what to do in terms of, like, recovering anytime that you can stop the blood from pooling, I mean, even a little as, like, taking my dogs for a walk after my run session, that's recovery. That's like free speed because, like, I'm keeping the blood moving because, you know, it's that pooling of the blood that does the most damage. So sitting at a desk is the worst case scenario. But that's what we all sitting in a car. I know I'm like, already, like, my butt is already, like, giving me, like, the angry, angry sign. But that's What I think people forget when you are thinking about recovery. Yeah. It's not just like the things that we like massage, like massage is great. Right. Active release therapy is good. Like even chiropractic, you know, all those things are fantastic. Compression boots, the percussion guns, muscle stem, going for a walk, you know, that's like another recovery component.

Andrew Harley: 100%. Yeah, yeah.

Michellie Jones: So, yeah. So make sure and you know, I think it's not so much again, as we said before with mobility, it's not like a need to overdo it, but it's making sure you're consistent. And you know, these small additions, you know, you know the blood pooling is, is, is starting to get prevented because you know you're moving it around then you're going to like reduce soreness, which is always nice. So that's going to keep your training at a much higher level. So again, free speed.

Andrew Harley: For anybody who's interested in learning a little bit more about cold water immersion ice baths or, or just using cold and heat heat for recovery. Michellie, we actually seven episodes ago, episode 292 of the TriDot Podcast is called Chill Out Cold water immersion for triathletes. And Dr. B.J. Leeper and Coach Ken Prescutti both talked to us for a full hour about just using cold as recovery. And Michellie, over to you for Coach Michellie Jones's sixth recovery rule that's going to help us find free speech.

Michellie Jones: As much as sometimes you hate all the data that's coming in, I think it's like a really important piece because as AI gets more integrated, I mean already as tri dotters we're getting already integrated into AI as AI progresses, all that health data that we're collecting is going to be so beneficial down the road. And it's like it's not a conversation that we have a lot on of but I think it's an important conversation.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: That collect as much for your overall health too, not just the recovery component because I mean rule number six is about listening to your HRV and you know, your mood, but it's also like all those smart health devices that's on the market. As much as we can collect all that data, AI is then going to eventually and it's already starting to do it. It's going to interpret it that it's going to help facilitate recovery and performance. It's just that we're not, we're there in a small, we're there in such a small way right now. And as I said like tri dot's already like ahead of the game. But I think it's going to become increasingly more important in the health range, which to us is performance range. Right. As athletes, health and performance part of the same. So we, we talk about recovery and it's not just a physical component, it's that psychological component and that emotional component as well. So, you know, you want to keep an eye on your heart rate variability, but like, remember, it's like you're looking for a trend. You're not like, if it goes down a little bit and then comes up, that's not a big deal. You know, you're looking for those, those like three, four, six, seven days of trending in the wrong direction. That's where HRV could be really important. And then, you know, when you look, it's sort of like again, you know, those modules are going to tell you what your sleep quality is about. So it goes back to rule number one, what those, those modules and those smart health devices are telling us that, you know, that sleep quality is going to get reported and then of course, mood right too. I think that's an important component on it because if your HRV is low, motivation is probably off and then your sleep is disrupted. So it's that vicious circle.

Andrew Harley: Then if you force the workout, you have a bad workout.

Michellie Jones: Yeah. And the thing is like, the body's always like telling you something, but when it starts to wave a big red flag, that's when you have to be a little careful. So. So I think it's important that you collect the data and I think you be flexible with what it's telling you and adjust, of course, when needed. And then this is the part where I started at the beginning. Right. Everyone trains hard, but let's train smarter, not just harder. And I think that's a good point. With everything that we've talked about that I'm all about training smarter, not harder.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Not that you have to have an OURA ring and a Whoop band and a Garmin watch and nine things every single time you step out the door. But yeah, having the right tools to measure what's going on in your body during the workout one benefits the data that you're putting in the TriDot, but then benefits that data then benefits all of us because the machine learning algorithms are constantly learning from what's happening with all of our data. So really cool stuff behind the scenes. And Michellie, I'm glad you brought it up.

Michellie Jones: Yeah. That data is going to be helpful to us for our overall health. I mean, it's just a matter of time where AI is really going to be able to use that data. So you collect more data now. Free speed right there.

Announcer: Great set. Everyone. Let's cool down.

Andrew Harley: All right, Coach Michellie, onto the cooldown portion of our show where I'm going to ask you a question from a member of our audience. And this question came in from Claudio and Claudio wanted to know. He says, hey, I'm, I'm thinking about jumping from the, from doing sprints and Olympics to doing halves and fulls. How different is it racing these longer distances? Coach Michellie, I, I, I knew you were coming on. I saw this question. You are a Olympic Champion. You're an Olympic silver medalist, the world champion at the Olympic distance for two years in a row in your career and then you bumped up to IRONMAN and won that too. So you've got quite a bit of experience racing across all the distances. How different is it going to happen? Full from doing sprints and Olympics?

Michellie Jones: Well, for one, I love it right fast before long. So I'm all over this. All over is because, and I think the one thing is when you are transitioning from like a short course to a long course, you know, you've sort of got to go from being like a speed demon to a big diesel engine. I mean it's really important to build that aerobic capacity so those upper end zone two workouts become very, very important. And you know, it's sometimes it's hard to let go when you are so used to like pushing so hard. And I think that was the biggest advice that Paul and UBI Fraser when was doing IRONMAN and when I won in 2006, like she said, like, like back then, you know, she understood the importance of that aerobic training, like slow down for me. Then it's like, you know, the strength component comes into play. You know those, that mobility is even more significant because you know you are stressing yourself more. And then, you know, it comes the recovery of, you know, getting through the sessions and making sure you're doing everything that, you know, know you are enjoying the process and the long workouts and you know you do get addicted to the, the long distance training. And then it's like I tell my athletes this all the time. It's like you need to go back to short course now. You've done too much long course because you become champion trainers, Olympic distance, international distance. That's when nutrition starts to come into play. Yeah, but you step up to a long course, it's significant.

Andrew Harley: You know you talk about like, yeah.

Michellie Jones: Discipline, you know, you've got to train your stomach and people sometimes get caught up. And I think this is probably one of the biggest lessons you can tell somebody who's coming over. Like, it takes at least seven days to train your stomach. And if something doesn't work the first time, like, maybe you need to keep like doing that because, you know, you've got to teach your body to absorb the calories. It's like we can't just go into short course training, into long course training and expect our, our body to be able to process all the carbs that we need to get through a race. It's like you've gotta train the system to do that. And then you gotta think about if you are struggling nutrition wise, what does your metabolic profile look like? Because maybe the intensity that you're going on the bike is way too high because then the absorption of the calories aren't happening. And some people, they can eat anything and they have no problems. And I think the third thing is it's like you have to adapt your position from short course to long course on the bike, 100%. I think it's like you have to change it. It's like it's, you're going to be in the saddle for a long time and so you want to make sure that, you know, it's not just about aerodynamics. It is, I mean, that's free speed right there. Anything you can do to get those watts. But it's about being comfortable and being able to hold that position for huge amounts of time and, you know, enjoy the process. Because, like, I loved when I was training after doing short course for so many years, it was like everything was like a new milestone. It's like, oh, this is the first time I've ran over two hours. This is the first time I rode over five hours. And it sort of goes back to my principle that happens the 1st of January that everyone's got to throw out all their threshold history, so to speak, because day one, it's a chance to like, do something new, like every, you'll get a new threshold history for the, for that first test that you do. Because I think people get so stuck in who they used to be rather than living in the moment. And I just put out a post the other day about like, a lot of people lose sight of what's actually in front of them because they're looking so long term that they forget to live in the moment.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Don't feel the pressure to master it. All straight away way. Right. It's the process of getting better with your nutrition, better with your gear. Yeah.

Michellie Jones: Patience and pivoting. Patience, pivoting. And be happy with the race you had, not the race that you wish you had. Just like every training session, right. Some. Some you. You knock. And I think that sometimes we get so many athletes that are so used to being successful that when they fail, they think it's like a big disaster. But, like, you never learn anything when you're winning. So if every session is absolutely perfect. Yeah. I want you to be consistent because. Because that's the secret sauce right there. The more consistent you are, the better you're going to get. But, like, you're going to fail at some point, but don't look at it in terms of like, you failed in a bad way, you failed in a good way because you've walked away and you've learned something and that's going to help you get across the finish line.

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