Limitless: Women in Triathlon

TriDot Podcast Episode 324

Limitless: Women in Triathlon

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast special show. Today, for the first time in a long time, we are not going to do our usual warm up main set and cool down. Today I will be joined by Mark Allen and Michellie Jones, both legendary IRONMAN champions, both incredible coaches and both are part of a new initiative we have here at TriDot called Limitless Women in Triathlon. Through the Limitless initiative, TriDot is giving 1000 women free triathlon training for a full year to support women who are in triathlon and hopefully to help spark more women to try triathlon. Now, throughout the episode you will actually hear myself, Mark and Michellie all mention this is for 500 women. Limitless went live late last week and applications came in so fast that our leadership decided to expand the program and to 1,000 women. So if you are interested or want to nudge a female friend towards triathlon and towards TriDot, go to go.TriDot.com/limitless or you can just google try that Limitless and it will probably come up in your Google search. And of course I will put that link in the description of today's show to make it easy to find. Once you go there you can learn more and apply. Now I talked to Mark and Michellie separately as they were both in very different time zones last week, different countries, different parts of the world. We will hear from Mark first because Limitless was actually his idea and then we'll hear from Michellie, both sharing information about the program, how they will be helping personally as coaches and the difference they hope it makes for female triathletes. Enough from me, let's get to it. This is the TriDot podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world class coaching with every conversation. All right, excited to be joined today by Mark Allen, fresh home in California off of a triathlon trip to Vietnam and Chile. Right, Mark?

Mark Allen: Yeah, two different long haul trips, both of them amazing, both of them for IRONMAN 70.3 races which next year will become full distance IRONMAN. First full distance race in Vietnam, first full distance race in Chile. And so it's just super exciting that the sport is still expanding and that there's this real almost grassroots excitement in other countries because they're getting to experience some of this stuff firsthand in their countries that a lot of us obviously have had for decades or that they've had to travel to, to experience. So yeah, a little jet lagged. You know, it's a long way to Chile. It's even longer way to Vietnam, but so worth the travel.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I just love Mark, you know, being friends with you, following you on social, keeping up to date with where you are in the world. You're just such a great ambassador for the sport of triathlon and I know you love visiting new places and just kind of checking out the triathlon scene. I would love to do an episode where we just get on the microphone and talk about triathlon around the world and what is the triathlon vibe and the triathlon scene like in Vietnam versus America versus Mexico versus South America versus Asia Pacific and just kind of, you know, get on with yourself and some other of our world traveling friends and, and just kind of hear what are the differences, what are the similarities with triathlon triathletes in different places. But that's a conversation for a different day. Today we're talking about the, the expansion and the support of triathlon into something different from other countries. What we're talking about supporting the women in triathlon. And you know, I shared a little bit in the intro of this episode for what Limitless is, but just in your own words, Mark, can you just kind of lay the groundwork of what the Limitless initiative is and how it's going to support women in triathlon?

Mark Allen: Yeah, Limitless, it's a, it's a program where we're providing 500 women with free coaching for one year on TriDot, just, you know, to try to, not to solve every challenge that a woman is facing if she's thinking about, hey, I want to do a triathlon, I want to try it out, but to at least you know, maybe eliminate one of the barriers, the cost of getting guidance. And you know, there's, there's so many great groups out there who have been working to help women, you know, mentor them, provide community to give them guidance to come into the sport. And a lot of that work. It's not stuff that I personally could actually be involved with because it's more hands on, let's say. So, like I don't have training groups in any of my coaching because I, like you just said I travel a lot. But it went back to. Actually the seed of this actually really started when IRONMAN split up the, the world championships a couple years ago into a men's race. The men's race on Saturday, but the women's race on Thursday in Kona. And you know, we know that the men and the women, when they race separately, they have, there's a different energy to the field, different energy to the race. You know, we, we saw that We've seen that for many years now. Once they. In the 70.3 World Championships, and. You know, the vibe is so different. Right. But in Kona, we had kind of just seen, like, the conglomerate and an amazing experience, you know, but, you know, when you. When you take, like, blue and red and mix it together, it's purple. And so that's all you see is purple. But when you separate them out, you realize, oh, there's blue and there's red. And maybe if there was more red, it might change the complexion of everything. And so. And in Kona that year, you know, when they split it up had Thursday was the women's race. I was there all week, and the first couple days that I was there, there was almost this general timidness among the women. Like, you know, did I earn this? Am I...

Andrew Harley: Is...

Mark Allen: Is this really my space? And by Wednesday, they owned that space. Yeah, they own their space in Kona. And it was. But it was in such a different vibe and energy than, you know, when the men are there. Like, the women are actually really kind to the volunteers. They're really thankful to the organizers, kind.

Andrew Harley: Of the volunteers kind to each other.

Mark Allen: Yeah, they're not necessarily going into battle the way that guys kind of, you know, look at racing. But anyway, it was such a cool thing. And then fast forward to just, you know, looking at. Looking at women's participation in sport. You know, women have been an incredible inspiration for me and for many others in this sport. I mean, if you look back, we wouldn't be here without Julie Moss in 1982. You know, her crawl to the finish and Kathleen McCartney passing her just in that last few feet. Without that, this sport would not exist as it does today. That was an inspiration for me and for thousands of others to get into the sport of triathlon. You know, looking at. Looking, you know, in. In 1989, I went down to New Zealand and I was training with Scott Molina and Aaron Baker. And in. In the winter that year, and Aaron's fire and drive and sort of like black and white, this is. This is what I'm doing. Kind of an attitude, like, sort of woke me up and like, wow, wow. I need to actually, I need to focus a little bit better, you know, and through that sort of indirect mentorship from Aaron, that helped me put together training that really brought the fitness out that I felt like I could have. And I ended up winning in Kona that year. Many reasons, but that was a big reason. You know, watching. Watching women since then, like, you know, Chrissy Wellington Having this incredible career and then moving on and really doing great things in the world. You know, women are clearly inspirational. They're aspirational. And so, you know, I just, I've always been a supporter of women and equality in the sport. People probably don't know a lot of the history of that. You know, at the first ITU Olympic Distance World Championship in 1989, the race organizers the day before the race said, oh, we're going to pull the prize money out of the women's race and put it in the men's race. And me, Aaron Baker and a number of the other top athletes walked into the ITU Congress, International Triathlonian Congress, barged through the doors and said, put the money back or we don't race.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, love it.

Mark Allen: Black and white, period, you know, and this was a huge risk because if they said we're not putting it back, none of us are going to go win a world championship because none of us are going to race. They acquiesced, they put the money back in and that really set the stage for equality of prize money in the women's races. You know, a couple years before that there was a triathlon in New York City. It was called the Crystal Light Triathlon. Amazing. Kind of a one time huge bash event where we swam from the Statue of Liberty to Battery Park.

Andrew Harley: Oh, wow.

Mark Allen: Biked along the, I think the Great west highway or whatever it's called, and we did a lap of Central Park. Amazing. Finished at Tavern on the Green. Similar thing happened the, the race organizers go, ah, we're going to pull most of the money out of the women's purse and put it in in the men's. And I along with a couple others said, yeah, you do that. And again, we don't race. They acquiesce, they put the money back, you know, and if I was in it for a self serving reason. I would have lost there because I lost thousands of do lost thousands of dollars that they were going to put into the men's race. But know that's doing the right thing in my mind is making sure that as best as possible you try and create a equal opportunity for everybody out there who's, whether you're age grouper or professional. And so anyway. You know, we had a couple weeks ago there was kind of a, a bit of grumbling about the, the new slot allocation system for the IRONMAN in Hawaii. And I was completely 100% supportive of it when I first heard the idea where they were going to time adjust for athletes and have this performance pool and you know, you could essentially be a 60 year old woman and be at the top of the list for the next slot. Great idea. In practice it didn't work. And so, you know, we put a, a couple posts up on my Instagram. One was just kind of a, an open letter to, to IRONMAN saying hey. I think you should maybe revisit this and see if there's a way to make it a little bit more equitable. And we put a petition up so that people could sign if they agreed with that request. To IRONMAN, like, hey, just look at this. That's all we're asking. We're not saying this was an intentional thing. It was very unintentional. None of us could have foreseen how it was going to play out anyway. So they, they actually listened and they were, they had been working on sort of modifying it and in the end they came up with a system. Now that I think is very fair. But it's, it's still based on women's participation compared to men's participation. And so I thought, okay, this is just one step. The, the real thing that would be super exciting is if there's something that I could do to help again reduce the number of barriers to getting into the sport. Do something that would hopefully help all of the other groups and women and entities that have really been working hard for years to try to engage more women, provide community, provide guidance, give them that support to get into the sport. Not to go to Kona, but just to have this be this incredible lifestyle which as we all know is like super cool. And the best thing about it is the community that we have. And so I thought, you know, working with TriDot, we came up with this idea of limitless, like, let's just help 500 women get coaching for the year. First 500 who sign up, we're going to give you the coaching. We are going to provide some community. We're going to provide webinars, some guidance words from clear experts in the field of women and endurance sports. And this is not going to solve every thing that might hold a woman back from competing in triathlons. You know, it's a time consuming sport. The reality is a lot of women have a lot more responsibilities that they can't just shove off to the side on Saturdays and disappear for six hours like some of the guys do, you know. And so anyway, and people have asked me, well, like what's the motivation behind this? And the motivation is just very simple. You know, I, when I, I've always been trying to figure out what are ways that we can bring more people into the sport, what are ways that we can provide a greater experience for people who are in the sport. That's one of the reasons I went to TriDot. I brought all my coach, my athletes over there because in my opinion it's, you know, the best way to get coached. And. So hopefully that's what this will do. And, and hopefully, you know, if, if companies who are interested in this sport and who are supportive of entry level athletes and getting participation up, especially among the women, hopefully they'll sort of jump on this and get involved and provide support also. So it's, again, it's just one piece, but hopefully not only through the women who. And we've only had this up for a short period and it's almost completely filled up hours.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. At the time you and I are recording this.

Mark Allen: Yeah. And you know. I don't always have a platform to feel like I can do something that could be effective and positive, but it felt like right at this point there were enough sort of eyeballs kind of looking at what I'm doing. And Scott Zagarino and I, my business partner, he's a genius with this kind of, kind of thing of getting people to participate and have great experiences. That's what his whole journey in triathlon and sport has been. You know, we came up with this idea and, and, you know, and with, by the graces of TriDot, they said, yes, let's do this. And people said, what's, why, why are you doing this? Like they're, they're thinking, you know, where, where are you going to make the money on this? Yeah, yeah, I get, I get nothing from this. I don't earn $0.01 from anything that's happening from it. It's just something that I feel strongly about. You know, we might get two more women in the sport, we might get thousands more. But regardless, if I can just facilitate through this program of limitless women, some more women to get in and have a positive experience, you know, that's, I think that's, that's pretty cool. And I put myself at risk by doing this. You know, like. You know, I, I don't think Iron man was very happy with me sort of calling out that the, the slot allocation system didn't seem to be very fair. You know, there's, I've had a number of, of groups who are like, hey, how, how are you? Why are you jumping in to this all of a sudden? You know, and. Yeah, but again, the thing that people don't maybe know is that I'm not just jumping in to help support women in the sport. I have been doing that from the very beginning. You know, I've been in the Sport for whatever, 40, 43 years now, and I have a very 100% track record of always supporting equality of opportunity for women, you know, and trying to do what I can from my side when opportunities come up. And we kind of created this one. And I love, I love the, what we're calling it Limitless. You know, it's, it is aspirational and. You know, limitless. It's, it's an opportunity for people to maybe just do something that they didn't think they could or that they were nervous to try. And for me, that's what limitless is. Limitless is not about, you know, breaking some incredible world record. It's about improving your personal journey within whatever you're doing. And, and sport has such a way of answering so many questions about life itself. You know, the, the parallels and the metaphors are, oh, yeah, endless, endless. You know, you learn about resilience, you learn about breaking your own barriers of what you felt you could do. And sport provides you with that empowerment to really go for something that is maybe a dream for you, even if you don't know if you can do it. And that's, I think, why probably we all got into the sport like that looks cool, but I don't know if I can do it, you know, and, and so, yeah, limitless 500 women. And as those women go through their journey, you know, hopefully they will also reach out to other groups and communities within their area that have been doing this and supporting women for a long time with more of like the, the very hands on things that you can do when you're, when you have a community in your town, in your area that you can, you can train with and you can communicate with, we're going to provide as much of that as we can from afar.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I was that one question. Good God, that was, that was one question mark. And I think you answered four of the five questions I have on my sheet. But you and I will have no problem continuing the talk. I'm, I'm confident in that. But man, I, I just, I still remember, you know, I've been on staff with Predictive Fitness, the parent company. I've tried out for six years now. I've, you know, heard, been on a lot of different calls. I've been a part of a lot of different initiatives and brainstorming of Initiatives. And when I first heard this idea and the eye popping number of 500 athletes, 500 athletes are going to get free training for a full year. The only time, you know, we, we've had, you know, promotions where athletes can have two months free, two weeks free, you know, four months free, depending. But we've, we've never done anything like this. There was one thing that we did where one athlete was gonna win free training for a year. One athlete, right. And that was a, that was a promotion a number of years ago. And, and so when we, when we all saw this, it was just like, oh my gosh, like that's, that's an eye popping number. And it's, you know, we're a business, you know, we, we, we do need to make some money. We, we can't give, you know, free training to everybody. But to, to something that, that you said along the way, like, okay, we, we, we all see that there is this certain percentage, I think it's somewhere around 27, 26% female and 7.

Mark Allen: I give them at least 30. Yeah, I think.

Andrew Harley: Okay, yeah, so, so yeah, so roughly, you know, 30 to 70. Either way, all of us in the sport would love to see that ratio tick up right toward female participation. And so really as a, you know, as a brand, we see this much more as a philanthropic thing, right? We, we want to be a part of, just like you, like at no benefit to ourselves, we want to be a part of solving a problem. A part of, you know, we, like you said, we can't solve every problem that a female athlete faces and getting into the sport. But what can we solve? We can solve training and coaching because that's what we do. Right? So yeah, I'm very excited about this. And I remember Mark, when we were all in Kona for that very first all female race in Kona, you were there, I was there. I remember while the race was happening, just walking around and at all the different restaurants along Ali' I Drive and you know, all the TVs and the hotels nearby, like all eyes on the island were glued to the women's race. And it was awesome. Whereas before the attention was split, the broadcast bandwidth was split. They're trying to cover what's happening in the men's field and then jump to the women's field and back and forth and back and forth and the whole thing, the whole focus was on the women the entire time. And it was amazing. And what I love about this number of 500 athletes that are going to be given free training, it's not, you know, in the grand scheme of things, it's not thousands, it's not tens of thousands, it's not, oh man, we're going to get a hundred thousand females into the sport because of this initiative, but it's something that we can do. And that's five, that's 500 athletes that are going to be on social media documenting. I'm becoming a triathlete. Here's my journey. They're going to be in their communities, sharing with their friends. This is a new thing that I'm trying. And when more athletes, male and female, see them in public spaces training for their races, becoming a triathlete, going on that journey, who else might it spark to become a triathlete? Right? Both male and female. It just gives us 500 more examples of, oh, she's doing it. Maybe I can do this too. Because I still remember Mark. Before I was a triathlete, I was, I was tri curious. I was interested in triathlon. I was swimming at the gym, I was running every day after work. I had never touched a bike. But I met a guy who, he wasn't like a die hard triathlete, but every single year he would do one or two local sprint races. And I didn't know sprint and Olympic triathlon existed. I thought, oh, if you're going to do triathlon, you have to become an IRONMAN. And so when I met this guy and he's telling me, oh, yeah, you can just do a sprint, it's this many miles. It's like that gave me the nudge to, oh, okay, yeah, he's doing this. I just need to buy a bike and I can do this too. And a couple months later I'm a triathlete and a couple years later I have a podcast and a couple years later I'm working for. Try not talking to you right now. Right? But my point there, without me starting the ramble as well, is my point there is the clinching thing that nudged me into becoming a triathlete was meeting somebody local in my community that was a triathlete. Right? And we're empowering 500 women to potentially become that nudge for other people in their communities as well as giving them a good experience. So I'm excited about this. I know you're excited about this. We're not just giving them free training and saying, go, have a good time, hope it works out. Like you said yourself and Michellie Jones, who are about to talk to you on the same episode here in a few minutes. And some of our other Legend coaches, some of our other try not staff coaches are going to be supporting these women in their 12 month journey training with TriDot. I know some of those details are still shoring up. Some, some of our brand partners are hopping on board to provide some stuff for these women. But what do you know of right now in terms of the mentorship that's going to happen and the community that's going to happen where Mark Allen will be supporting these, these ladies along with some others?

Mark Allen: Yeah, well, one of the things we're doing is we, we have been reaching out to a lot of groups that already exist who, who do have a lot of experience working, helping build community for the women. And. You know, that's, that's a huge component that seems to be a real sort of magnetic piece for women to get into the sport when they feel like there's a community that they can tap into. It's not necessarily quite as of a competitive drive as let's say some, a guy, you know, a man getting into the sport. So a lot of that is going to be driven by providing community outreach with these other groups that have been in this, in this thing, in this passion for many years. You know, we have, we have Michellie Jones, we have Mirinda Carfrae in the, in the TriDot stable. And so you know, the three of us will be doing a lot of sort of online things to just provide support and especially Rinny and Michellie will be able to give you that real experiential journey and what it's, what it's like to be a woman, why the sport is, can be so great for you and what you can get out of it. And you know, to go back to your, your what inspired you? I have in the last year, year and a half I, every group that I've been speaking with in the sport, I've said never underestimate the number of people that you are inspiring. Never underestimate the number of lives that you are impacting and changing and making better through what you do. I said, you know, I, I just kind of did my thing like I just tried to race well and I, I wasn't really thinking of what I did as a something for the, the global community. But I, I can see now over the years that you know, I've had impact and you know that that impact is, is experienced by every, anybody who knows somebody who does a triathlon who is in this sport. And you know, so like you said, it's, it's 500 women who hopefully will break down this, this one challenge to getting involved in the sport through the, the coaching and also with that mentorship and to just have it in the back of their mind, like, you know, this is going to be my journey, but maybe it's going to be something really cool that other people are going to see and go, wow, I want to do that too. And so hopefully it will be kind of like a seed or a snowball that will just bring some real positive energy and growth into the sport and to the experience of, in this case, specifically, women. But guys out there, I think, like I said, so much of my inspiration in this sport came through women who have been in this sport. And I wouldn't be the triathlete I am today had I not met them, been inspired by them. And I think that's a really important thing because all of the women who are going to be engaged in this, they're going to have a story, and their stories are going to be pretty cool. And, and as the year goes on, I hope that, you know, this podcast actually highlights some of those stories, because that's going to be more gold than anything that I can say to these women.

Andrew Harley: You know, definitely more than anything I can say in our. You know, people have heard me enough over the course of our 300 something episodes we have out by now. But Mark, maybe close us with this and then we're gonna, we're gonna bring Michellie on and hear from her a little bit. But why do you believe, you know, you've been coaching your athletes with try. Now for a number of years. Why do you believe TriDot is the best platform for a female athlete to be training?

Mark Allen: Well, that's the best platform, regardless of whether, whether you're a woman or a man, that the training plans are, are designed around your fitness, your race goals, your experience in the sport, your age, your gender, your location, wherever you're training. If it's a hot climate, a cold climate, you know, things are adjusted based on everything that you have. So it, it takes just so much of the. You know, if you're doing stuff on your own, it's kind of a guesswork thing. You know, putting a swim and a bike and a run together is kind of simple if you think about it. You swim, bike, run, swim, bike run, some bike run. But it's, it's complex if you're trying to actually optimize it so that if you do have limited time, if you do have challenges to figuring out, you know, how much training can I do? This will optimize Try optimizes the amount of the benefit from every session that you put in. And so many of the athletes that, that I had coached for years, when we came over to Dry Dot, you know, their, their weekly training volume went way, way down and they were nervous about it. Like, I don't know, it doesn't feel like I'm doing enough training. And. Yeah, and they all had better results and they're like, oh, so I can actually train less and get better, you know, and so that's my experience.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Mark Allen: And I don't even want to call this something that will help a barrier. I don't, I don't like that word, barriers, you know, when you're talking about things that might make it difficult for people to come in, it's just more like the challenges, the reality, like you said. So. And hopefully, you know, by providing this really optimized training that can get people super fit with even just a small amount of time taken out of their daily life, it will. One of the challenges to getting into the sport, you don't have to be a genius, you don't have to be in physiology, you don't have to be an exercise scientist to do it. You just show up, you put in your information, and everything is optimized for you. And then on top of that, like we said, we will be providing community and a place to communicate with the other women who are on this journey with you. And that's a really important thing. Like, if I look back at my career, yes, I had great wins, I had world championships, I had all of that glamour and glory stuff. But the thing that I cherish most was the time I had with my training partners and the team that supported me and helped me. And so it really is the community that makes this such a cool journey. And so as we help develop that within the Limitless framework and as other groups, like I said, who have been at this for many years, embrace it, bring it in, use it to help their, their athletes get on board. Hopefully we'll. We will create a little bit of a snowball. That'll get pretty big, I hope. All right. Limitless.

Andrew Harley: Limitless. Very excited to be on with Coach Michellie Jones from Giddyup Multisport and Michellie, we just got done chatting with Mark Allen, and Mark caught us up to speed on what the Limitless initiative is, where TriDot is giving 500 women free training for a year in support of women currently in triathlon and in hopes of bringing more women into triathlon. And I'm just curious for you, you're very involved with our team. You're very passionate about supporting and, you know, women athletes in the sport and women coaches in the sport. What did you first think when you first heard about this initiative?

Michellie Jones: I was like, this is exactly what the sport needs. I'm a, I'm a huge advocate for ensuring that we have as many women racing and coaching as possible. I know, like, through my professional career, I only ever had actually one female coach and that was Paula Newby Fraser. So I think it's really what a.

Andrew Harley: What a coach to have, though.

Michellie Jones: Exactly. Hey, I'm all about. If you're going to get, I'm going to get the very best. And. And at that point, Paula was exactly what I was all about.

She knew me, she'd been there and won in Kona many times. So definitely, you know, that knowledge that she brought to my short course knowledge really, really excelled me. And, you know, it's thanks to her that I actually won the IRONMAN World Championships. But I think it's also, you know, we just can't talk the talk. We've got to walk the walk.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: And, you know, we want to keep, we want to keep moving the needle. Right. We want to keep making sure we're creating these opportunities for women and we're making sure that the door is getting kept open, that we keep having this awesome message about how beneficial it is to have more women participating, more women coaching. I think we bring such a unique perspective to racing and look at who the top, the top, top earners right now are definitely for IRONMAN, someone like Lucy Charles has definitely got to be at the top of the top. You know, the following that she has surpasses most of the men. I don't think there's anyone that has a stronger profile than her. So, you know, it's, again, it's like, it's time. It's. It's about time. And I really applaud what TriDot is trying to do and I am 110% behind this initiative.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I, I've been on staff with Predictive Fitness, the company behind TriDot, for just over six years now. And, and I sit on the marketing team, right, as the media producer. And I've seen and heard a lot of different ideas thrown out, you know, some that are just, you know, pure marketing. Like, like, hey, how can we, how can we get more, more folks using our product? Right. That's what a marketing team is for. But there's also a number of initiatives we've done over the years, just not necessarily for that. Just more of a how can we support the sport? How can we help grow the sport? How can we help other brands that are alongside of us in the sport? And when I first saw the number 500 athletes, I was blown away by that. We have never talked about anything on the scale of this. And it really goes to show me like just how quickly our CEO and our leadership team approved this and greenlit this. Like everybody believes in it and it's purely just a show of support for those athletes. And Michellie, I'm curious, you know, you've been a woman in the sport for a few decades now. You know, you crushed it during your professional career. You're crushing it now. You are crushing it now. Racing as an age grouper, you know, you, you win races every other weekend. It seems like following you on social, you're co. You're crushing it as a coach, you know, coaching your athletes through Giddy Up Multi Sport. In all of your time in the sport, have you noticed much of a change in how many women are in the sport?

Michellie Jones: I mean, definitely I've seen a huge evolution of women's participation over the decades and decades that, that you, you said that. I actually have been involved in the sport and it's, it's sort of the right time right now. And we can, we like. I can go through the history of. I was actually on 60 Minutes in Australia. Everyone knows what 60 Minutes is and Australia has their own version, ensuring that women had equal participation and opportunity. And that wasn't happening at that time in Australia. And then we've seen the people like Paula Newby-Fraser, you know, being such an outstanding role model. You've seen Erin Baker in the past who has really fought for women's rights. And then, you know, as we step closer and closer to where we are now, you know, I totally applauded IRONMAN for doing two separate races for the world championships. I am still 100%, maybe 110, 120, 150% advocating that. I think we're taking a step back that it's going back to a one race in Kona. I feel like having those two separate races really raised the bar. It really focused on women and what they can achieve and the type of audience and the racing is just outstanding. You know, we, we've had such a huge battle of, of, of female athletes racing across all the world championships this year. It's been. As a fan of the sport, it's been absolutely fantastic. So as in to 2026, I can't believe we're already saying it's 20, 26. I mean, it's like women are realizing that, yeah, they do have that still imposter syndrome. We saw that. When Kona was those two separate years where they was just females only. We saw that a lot of women didn't feel like they belonged or deserved to be there. But I think we're starting to turn that script around that women do belong here, that women are wanted here. I think that's the most important thing and I think that's what I love about this initiative because we're telling women, we want you to be here, we want you to be successful, we want you to join community. We know that you have differences that need to be addressed. There's a whole list of things, you know, as the first thing I said, you know, that imposter syndrome, our physiology is very different. We deal with hormonal changes, we deal with life changes, pregnancy, leaving the sport, coming back into the sport. So I think for me, I've sort of lived every chapter of this evolution so far. You know, as I said, you know, as you said, from being a pro, racing the Olympics, guiding at the Paralympics, at the, you know, being a world championship and full circle coaching racing age group, I think this limit is initiative makes it possible for every single female. Excuse me, every single female is going to get an opportunity and 500 are going to get a very special opportunity. And you know, I applaud this initiative and I think it's, it's going to have an impact because not only those 500 women are going to benefit, but I can tell you they're going to become role models. And I tell my athletes this all the time, you never, you never know who is looking at you and going, wow, if they can do it, maybe I can do it. So we sort of like that multiplication effect that, you know, you encourage 500, that's going to encourage thousands and thousands more. And I think, you know, this is a step in the right direction. I think it's a positive step for women in our sport. And I'm super excited.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I, I, I grew up with a sister and some female cousins that I'm very close with, some female friends that I was very close with growing up. I was, I was, you know, I good friends with a lot of my, my sister's friends and family friends and you know, so I had a lot of female friends, female peers that I grew up with that played a variety of sports and excelled in a variety of sports. And so I, as a male. I've just always felt like, well, of course those female athletes belong at the race alongside of me. Of course, those female pros that we're talking about are just as impressive, if not more impressive oftentimes than their male counterparts. I. I never would have guessed that it was an issue or that it was a talking point that some female athletes might not feel like they belong in the sport as much or as easily as a male does. And you coach male and female athletes, right? And so you're having conversations with both genders about how is your training going, how are you feeling about your place in the sport, what's your identity as a triathlete? What are your goals in the sport? How does your life fit alongside of this sport? Do you find those conversations and those truths and just the identity as a triathlete to be very different between your male athletes and your female athletes?

Michellie Jones: I mean, definitely the goal's the same, right? As a coach. The goal as a coach for me, is to get my athletes to see their potential beyond what they thought their potential can ever be. And so that message is strong. It doesn't matter if you're a male or a female. The message differs because you have differences. You know, growing up, you know, it's like when I was growing up, it's like, you know, the message in my age, oh, get a husband, get married. And I was like, no, I want to do what I want to do. I'm very independent. And then, you know, you know, females are then expected to not do sport because they've got to raise the family. And, you know, that role is changing. And women are seeing that they can be great mothers but still give something back to themselves. So that's a big difference right there, is making female athletes who run the dynamics of the family, you know, they. They're the ones that are giving up a lot. It's okay. My message is it's okay to look after yourself a little bit because you're going to be much happier, you're going to be a much better parent, and you're going to be more successful in achieving the goals that you need to achieve for yourself. I mean, we have so many great mothers out there who do a fantastic job, and mothers are the best multitaskers in the world, and it's just amazing what happens. And, yeah, it's always nice to have support, and the support goes both ways, right? Because male athletes also need that family support. So it's important that you give back both sides. So that's always a conversation that I have, you know, are you making sure your family dynamics is on board with what you're doing? That's a complication to every single athlete. And then, you know, you look at where different athletes are in different phases and definitely, you know, there are similarities for sure between male athletes and female athletes. But you know, as I said, you know, the biggest stumbling block is getting those female athletes to really believe that they can do something and they can do something well beyond what they've ever dreamed of. Where males typically will be like, oh, I've got this. I always like what, what Mark Allen always says, you know, women will pretty much do everything you tell them to do. Where, you know, the guys on the other hand, you know, sometimes ego gets in the way, testosterone might get in the way a little bit. But you know, female athletes are really good at, you put it down, they're going to accomplish it. So sometimes you've got to hold them back a little bit and go, okay, that's good. But you know, it's okay that you know that sometimes you need to fail a little bit in order to succeed. And I mean, that message is strong across both genders. But yeah, I think it's more that women are juggling so many roles and there's so many expectations that add so many extra layers into training. And you know, we've talked about, you know, the family, the caregiving responsibilities, that life, work, balance, which is so different. You know, then you've got across the span of a, of a female, you know, you've got those hormonal considerations and you know, they definitely change your philosophy. And you know, as a coach, you've got to understand and appreciate that, you know, these differences, these hormonal considerations are huge impactful on your athletes mental and physical status. And then of course, you know, women really struggle with body image expectations. And that's one of the things that I love about triathlon is it doesn't, isn't really defined by one body type. There's so many different body types. And I think that's really so great at our sport because you can have basically a swimmer's body, you can have a runner's body, and you can be, have anybody and you're accepted in our sport. And I applaud our sport for, for being like that. I think there's so many things that I love about triathlon. It's like, doesn't matter if you're a male or female, you start, you, you start the same race as everyone else. Doesn't matter if you're a professional or you're an age grouper. We're doing the same swim, the same bike, in the same run distance, which is fantastic. And then, you know, also we got to think about the safety concerns as a female athlete. It's like I have some horrific stories of when I was training in Australia that you would, the things that people would say to you as they were driving. One time I was running past like a cricket pitch and I was afraid to run back just from the verbal harassment I was, I was getting. And you know, male athletes typically don't get that type of harassment.

Andrew Harley: Nope, never.

Michellie Jones: Yeah, so, yeah, and I think, you know, it's one of those things, you know, sometimes nutrition needs can be slightly different. And then, you know, it's also that emotional weight that we, that females tend to carry around that, you know, I've got to look after everyone else. Like I said before, before, I look after myself. But I believe that triathlon changes you in so many positive ways. It's going to make you more self confident, it's going to empower you. You make these awesome friendships, you have this awesome bonding experience and you can share your own personal experiences. I think women are really supportive in that way. They will share what they're feeling and try to help you and they want you to succeed. And I think that's very special. So, you know, definitely, as a, as a female coach, I've learned that female athletes really thrive when we honor the whole picture, not just for workouts, if that makes sense.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I absolutely love that. And that's part of where I think Try that training is so special. Right. Because TriDot is gonna train me as a 37-year-old male differently as it will you. You know, as a female athlete. And it does, you know, customize the training to who you are, what your biology is, what your physical needs are, the training stress you can take on. So, so aside from this being.

Michellie Jones: Yeah.

Andrew Harley: So aside from this being an offer of free training for 500 women. Right. If we take the fact that the price, which the price is amazing off the table. You know, why do you as a coach and you coach your athletes with tried out, why do you believe try that is the best way for a female triathlete to train for triathlon.

Michellie Jones: Why it's, I was just telling somebody this the other day. It's so unique, it's so way ahead of the curve. And it adapts in a way that physically a human cannot be able to change it. I think that's one thing that I love about every time you upload a workout, it instantly change it. And I think also because of all, it's so data driven. The female physiology is not an afterthought, if that makes sense. It's really part of the whole programming and how the AI works and how it responds to who you are, how old you are. You know, you've got your, you've got your score based on, you know, comparing yourself to somebody who's younger than you. You know, you have that, that score that you get, you have a score for every workout that you get. So it's very, very motivating. But it's also very powerful for women. As I said, it's not volume driven, which I really like. And as I said, it's very data driven. So every time you're putting data in, it's going to respond very, very quickly. And I think that's important because women only have so much time. So it's balancing the time commitment because it's not a program that's going to get you to do junk mileage, it's just not necessarily to do that. And I've always had that philosophy. So in terms of balancing your career, your families, the hormonal shifts, the training is so much more of achievable in somebody who's in that time crunch position. So it's going to optimize every single session you do and it's not going to give you any extra time because you don't need that or any extra. And you don't have to use any extra energy because you're not doing any junk stuff. You're doing exactly what you need to do in a much more efficient. Backed by science. And I think that's one of the things I love about it. It's, it's, there's no junk, there's, there's no, there's no trash. It's, this is what you need to do. Don't waste your time thinking you need to do huge amounts of mileage. There's a purpose for every session. And I live by that motto every day. I'm like, if the session doesn't have purpose, then I'm not going to do it myself. And I like also that it's going to adjust to the life stresses too. Because our lives are never linear, that's for sure. And so TriDot will adapt based on the readiness, your fatigue, your sleep, your training load. And it's also taking into account the races. As soon as you upload all your races into the system, it's now driving all that programming towards making sure you are successful at your A race or your B race or your C race. And that's one thing that I love about it too. It's teaching you that you have to pick and choose. What your A race is, what you're willing to train through for a race. And you know, some people put like a lot of racing together and try lots. TriDot's going to go through their Race X is going to go, no, this is not ideal. So it's really teaching you also to coach yourself. And I'm a big believer that coaches should be teaching you. One of the goals is to be able to coach yourself. See what else do I love about it? I mean just the confidence that you get that you see that, you know you're, if you're scoring highly on every workout, you know it's got, it's giving you confidence because you know you've done exactly as it's prescribed.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, great point.

Michellie Jones: And the success, the success stories, like even when I race I need a coach. I use the TriDot platform for my coaching as well. And I'll often go, okay, this is what I would give myself. Let me see what TriDot is going to give me. And it's, it's nine times out of ten we're very similar because I've always been fast before long and I've always been into less is better.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: So yeah, it's a fun like little test to see like okay, what would I prescribe myself? What would TriDot prescribe me? And you know it's, it's great because sometimes then I'll go, okay, it's saying this, I'm saying this. Sometimes I'll do a middle ground as well because you know, I also have a lot of experience but I'm biased and I am so close to myself sometimes I'm not good. Yeah, I need like, I need somebody else like looking in from the outside and that is super, super important that you know, it doesn't matter who you are. You know, a good coach can't always coach themselves. You definitely need somebody who's a step away and can look in from the outside.

Andrew Harley: There are a number of tried out coaches that also have a tried out coach for that very reason. It's like they, they know everything. Right? Like they, they know enough to be an excellent coach in their own right. But recognize exactly what you're saying. Like I, I'm too close to myself. I need a, I need a third party to, to, to kind of help me perfect this and get it right.

Michellie Jones: No, yeah, it's, you know, and it's not a failure on anyone's part. It's just, it's smart. Like, I think, you know, if you don't have somebody helping you out and looking in, I don't think you're being a great coach to yourself and I think you're limiting your ability to get the best out of yourself. Not to say that it can't be done, but I definitely think, you know, it definitely helps for me to bounce ideas off Try dot basically.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Michellie Jones: So that I'm staying true the goals that I've set for myself as well. And I love the community support too. Like, I think that's what these 500 women are really going to love, that, that community support, the coaching support that you're also going to get outside of that. And I think that's what's so cool that TriDot is really doing. It's not just a platform. It's a community. And I think triathlon is so community based. And I go to a race and I call it my family because I'll see people that I haven't seen for years. Yeah, but it's like we never, but it's like we never really left. Yeah, you know, it's like we, you know, it's like one of those things where, hey, great to see you. It's like, you know, when was the last time I saw you? And it could be like 10 years, it could be like yesterday. But yeah, but yeah, it's definitely like, I love it's. And it's social. Right? That's a lot of athletes out there. It's a huge part of their social life. I think particularly as we mature as athletes. Notice I didn't say get older, we mature as athletes, but you know, it does. Like I see a lot of the athletes I coach, it's their social outlet. It's like, I'll go riding with my friends, I'll go swimming with my friends. Hey, let's pick a race to go and do as a group so it becomes very much part of your, your social activities.

Andrew Harley: So you, you will definitely be involved in supporting the 500 women that join the Limitless Initiative. You know, Mark, on kind of sharing some details on what's going to be happening between, you know, yourself and Mark. You guys are going to be part of a group of coaches kind of interfacing with these ladies. What impact do you personally hope to have on the athletes that join Limitless?

Michellie Jones: I mean, just get them excited about the sport, you know, get them excited about the longevity that you can have in the sport. I think I. I think I represent that pretty well that, you know, you, you can continue to find passion, you can continue to push yourself. And I, I just want to share, like, so many stories that I have. I often tell people if it happened, hasn't happened to me, it's probably never going to happen because there's a lot of things that I have definitely experienced over my career. But, yeah, I just want to, as I said, I. I want to increase women's participation. I want to keep driving our numbers up. I want to ensure that we have equality across every single possibility in endurance sports. And. You know, I want to see what these 500 women are capable of. Like, just like my athletes that I coach, I want them to be open and upfront of what they're trying to achieve. And then I'm going to go, hey, let's off the ante just a little bit, because I know that you're selling yourself a little bit short. And I want to make sure that we motivate you. We share, you know, the highs and the lows, because it's not always about the highs and get to that race. And, you know, my famous words of wisdom is be happy with the race you had rather than the race you wish you had. You know, that journey to the start line is going to be so special. And, you know, even if you've done many start lines, I think this is going to build such a great community.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I actually just earlier this week saw a longtime TriDot athlete, shout out to TriDot Athlete Kay Grant. She had a race over the weekend that didn't quite go the way she wanted. She posted a race report and some pictures of the Facebook group and, and. And quoted you saying, I'm going to quote Michellie Jones. I'm happy with the race I had, not the race I wish I had. I. One of my favorite quotes from you, uh, Michellie, we're almost at the end of our hour with, you know, Mark and then yourself talking about this initiative. And so just maybe close us out with this. And just a minute or so, if there is a female athlete listening today that maybe is new to the sport or thinking about getting involved in the sport. What would be your. Your words of encouragement to them. To join this, you know, to jump on board with this, but more importantly to, you know, maybe go from the shallow waters of interest in triathlon into the deep end of interest in triathlon, what would your appeal be?

Michellie Jones: Well, one thing that I always lead my athletes is actions before emotions. So make it actionable. You know, don't just think about it. Don't be sitting on the sidelines thinking, I'm not sure I can do this. I'm not sure I have the time commitment. I want you to be excited about it. I want you to be actionable. I want you to go, you know what? I belong here. I've been thinking about this, or maybe I haven't even thought about it ever before. You know, we want you here. We want to support you on, on, on that mission to get to a triathlon. Or maybe it's just training. Maybe it's a triathlon. Maybe it's finishing your first ever IRONMAN. Whatever it is. Don't be afraid to take the first step. I see so many people out there around the world who never take that first step. So I encourage you to sign up, get on board. And, you know, even if maybe you're outside of those lucky 500, don't give up on the possibility that you can do something that will change your life forever.

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