Nolan McKenna: Representing Team USA at the Ultra Marathon World Championships

TriDot Podcast Episode 337

Nolan McKenna Representing Team USA at the Ultra Marathon World Championships

Andrew Harley: Hey everyone. Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. Today on the show, we're going to hear a really good athlete story. This week, TriDot and RunDot athlete, Nolan McKenna, is traveling to India in order to represent Team USA at the Ultra Marathon World Championship. Super cool stuff. We are psyched for Nolan. Now Nolan is a RunDot coach. He's a TriDot Pool School coach. He's a TriDot athlete. He's a RunDot athlete. He's coached by TriDot coach, Tony Washington. So he is all over the place in the TriDot and RunDot ecosystem. And so this actually is a recording from the RunDot Podcast. Our host for the RunDot Podcast, Carrie Tollefson, sat down with Nolan a few weeks ago to hear all about how he qualified to represent Team USA, why he decided to target the ultra-marathon distance. He's got to run a 50k; that's longer than your standard marathon. And it was just such a great conversation. And since he travels this week and will be competing this week, representing Team USA, I thought this would be just be a great chance for the TriDot Podcast audience to rally behind Nolan, as well. So I'm going to step out of the way, and we're going to pick up with Carrie and Nolan in the warm-up question of the RunDot Podcast. Find him on the socials, and cheer him on as he represents Team USA, coming up soon.

Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world class coaching with every conversation. Let's get started with today's warm-up.

Carrie Tollefson: Alright Nolan, our warm-up question. What is your favorite event t-shirt that you've gotten as a freebie from a race?

Nolan McKenna: Probably the runDisney event t-shirts. It's so fun to have the characters, and runDisney is a pretty small, close-knit group, where you're ‘in the know’ if you're doing runDisney races, and it feels a little bit more special, where some bigger races, it's like, “Well, everyone has that shirt.” But some of the Disney races, when you see a Disney race shirt you're like, “Oh hey, you do runDisney too.”

Carrie Tollefson: A lot of different people run Disney, too. Like it's not always the elite and really fast up front. It's people that are coming with their family members, and it's a pretty cool atmosphere. So yeah, I bet.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I picked out one of mine. I just grabbed it quick. I don't know if you know Brave like Gabe, but Gabe Gruenwald, that is her foundation, and she was a professional runner, and she passed away of rare cancer. And I'm on the board of Brave like Gabe, and I love it because she designed the shirts when she was still with us. And they're cotton t-shirts, and they always have a different logo, and they're fine to run in, but they're more cozy and comfy. And when you think of Gabe, you can't help but think of being warm and cozy with her and hoping that we carry on her tradition. So, yeah, that was my favorite race t-shirt and still is. So yeah, that’s very cool.

Nolan McKenna: It's interesting to see the split of race t-shirts that you want to run in, or race t-shirts that you just want to wear casually. And it's like, I'm personally in the camp that I want to use my race t-shirts to actually run and train in.

Carrie Tollefson: Yeah, it's good. We're opposite. I like to be in my PJs, and I wear, a lot of times, my running clothes to bed, but I will throw on a comfy t-shirt over a sports bra that I'm going to wear the next morning, or a tank top, or whatever. So, yeah, there's all kinds of uses for those race t-shirts.

Nolan McKenna: That's what my wife does.

Carrie Tollefson: Does she?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. And she'll order in a 2XL, because that's what she wears to bed. She'll get the race t-shirt.

Carrie Tollefson: It’s like her bed-dress.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, I never thought of that. Order a bigger size.

Nolan McKenna: You don't have to get the exact size. You could just get a super big one, and it'll be, maybe, a little comfier.

Carrie Tollefson: That's brilliant. Okay, I'm going to do that from now on. Anyway, audience members, we want to hear from you, too. We're going to ask this question on all of our RunDot social media accounts. We're curious to hear what race t-shirt is in your closet and maybe what size do you get? Do you get the right size to run in, or do you get a big nighttime t-shirt like Nolan's wife?

Announcer: Let’s go.

Carrie Tollefson: Alright, let's head into the main set, now. So, Nolan, first things first. We want to talk about your upcoming race, where you're going to get to wear the red, white, and blue. You are representing the US at the Ultra-Marathon World Championship. So you got to be pretty pumped.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Amazing. I mean, it's been my goal, basically as long as I could remember, to represent Team USA. And ultra running has given me the opportunity to do that. It's a much less sought-after spot, just because no one really wants to run that far. But my philosophy is, if no one else wants to do it, I'll do it. I'll be the person to step up and run further than most people want to, if it means that I get to represent my country. And yeah, I'm so excited. That's the whole reason I'm doing ultras. That, and a lot of other reasons. But one of the big reasons is to be able to get that USA jersey, which is amazing. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So 50k, that's what you're going to be running?

Nolan McKenna: Yep, 50k, which really isn't too much different than a marathon. It's really accessible. So many people train for marathons like it's nothing. But then sometimes people get scared off by the ultra. 31 miles is like you're taking one extra goo, and that gets you the extra 5 miles. It's super accessible. You slow down the pace to a little bit more of a party pace than that marathon, and just cruise it out. It's been amazing. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So talk a little bit about the terrain, though. I mean, you're going to go to India, and I don't know why I think of India being more like gravel roads and things like that, but not necessarily. So tell us what the course is like.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so my understanding – obviously, I haven't been there yet. But my understanding, it's in the capital--

Carrie Tollefson: Okay. Oh, so maybe not gravel road.

Nolan McKenna: Big, big, big city. So it's a paved stretch, and it's a looped out-and-back course that we run multiple times. So it's a 5K loop. So there's going to be tables, aid stations every 5K, that we could get our bottles, get our nutrition and stuff. And then I think we just do that 10 times. Yeah, mile and a half, plus a little bit, out, mile and a half back, and just doing loops.

Carrie Tollefson: Wow, that isn't that -- I mean, that is a lot of loops. So how many people are in the field?

Nolan McKenna: I actually don't know, exactly. So I mean, yeah, if I had to guess, probably about 200 to 300. But I don't know.

Carrie Tollefson: It'll be interesting. So when you run Ultra World Championships, they're the ultra -- if it just says ultra, it's typically on the roads. If it's ultra-trail, ultra-mountain, then it gets a little more technical, correct?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't think it's super set in stone or anything, but yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Do you do trail running then, as well?

Nolan McKenna: I dabbled in it a little bit last year. And for me right now, it just was so much different from what I had done in the past, that there is quite a bit of a learning and training curve that I wasn't necessarily prepared for. So I went back to my strengths and being able to utilize all the history I have in running, I could utilize that a lot more on the roads than I can on the trails.

Carrie Tollefson: Sure. We're going to get into your history in just a little bit, but quick question, a little bit about New Delhi, again. So rumor has it, the race was pushed back a little bit. It was originally at a different date. Tell us a little bit about what happened there.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so originally it was supposed to be December 7, I think, and then due to air quality, it got pushed back. So the air pollution in that part of the world is very severe. So they deemed it at an unhealthy, unsafe level to host. So then they pushed it back later in the year. Which, that really worked out great for me, because me and my wife had a baby-- or my wife had a baby, now we have a baby -- on November 29, so that's been amazing. But at the time I had to pass up my spot, because I'm like, I’m not going to miss the birth of my son to go on this trip. But now that it's been pushed back, we're making things work. It's been really good.

Carrie Tollefson: How's he doing?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, he's doing really good. He's grown. He's doing all the things. I mean, right now he's about two months, so still just kind of a little sack of potatoes, but that's all they need to do.

Carrie Tollefson: Aww, so fun! And sleeping at all the wrong times.

Nolan McKenna: He's actually pretty good with the sleep, but I mean, relatively.

Carrie Tollefson: This is kind of that time, six to eight weeks, I always feel like, is where everyone is like, “Okay, now I could feel that I haven't slept very much in the last two months.”

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. It's one thing getting a bad night's sleep, one or two days.

Carrie Tollefson: Yes.

Nolan McKenna: But it's much different when it's cumulative, month and month and month. I look at my Garmin sleep scores, and I think my average for the past eight weeks is like 52. Yeah. So, I mean, it's been getting better. I've been hitting a couple 70s lately, so that's a much, much better spot.

Carrie Tollefson: Enjoy every minute of it, because before you know it, your baby will be ten. And my youngest is now ten. I have everyone in double digits, and I'm like, how in the world? It goes so fast.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Okay, let's talk about qualifying, then. Tell me a little bit about the qualification. How does that work?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so you could qualify at any certified course. So there's a time window and stuff. So as long as you run a qualifying time in that time window, then you could go. And there's only a certain number of spots. So you have to be at the higher end of the pecking order. Or there's a couple other ways. If you've ran at a previous World Championship and placed high there, or if you've won the USA Championships, then you get an auto spot, and you could be at a higher level. You could also qualify from the marathon. So if you've run under, I think it's 2:22, in the marathon. You could not even have run 50k before. But if you've run fast enough in the marathon, they'll use that conversion. Kind of like how you could qualify for the marathon trials with a half marathon, if it's fast enough.

Carrie Tollefson: I see. So how did you qualify?

Nolan McKenna: I qualified in a 50K, so I qualified at the Chicago Lakefront 50K, which is an amazing race. And it's growing, but it's super fun. It's a smaller race. Normally, there's about 150 people that run it, but that builds for a close-knit community group. But it's along the Chicago lakefront, and you run five-ish miles out, five-ish miles back, and you do that three times. So it's perfectly flat along the Chicago Lakefront trail, paved the whole way, and it's awesome.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, good. Okay. Well that's awesome. So when they push the race back, did they have to start from scratch with new athletes, or did they come to-- Were you originally going to run the race, but then with the arrival of the baby you decide to not run it?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. So basically, that's kind of what happened. But because it's also in India, there were empty spots. So like my spot, that I qualified for, was just left open. So when they got postponed, and I said, “Hey, I want to run again,” then they were able to just give me my spot back. Where I think if it was somewhere else, maybe a little closer to the US, and more people wanted to go, then maybe that spot would have been taken. But lucky for me, my spot was just sitting there waiting for me.

Carrie Tollefson: I mean, it doesn't matter how you get on that team, you got on that team. So tell me a little bit about how you said that sleep hasn't been great, but life is so fun when you have a brand-new baby. So you kind of can fake your way, a little bit. How's the training changed? Has it really, have you had to adapt a bit, or are you able to still get in most of your training?

Nolan McKenna: I've still been getting in most of my training. The great thing about RunDot is the philosophy of less time, better results. It's not like when I was when I was in college, running 100 miles a week, just putting in hours and hours and hours of mileage. It's a lot more fine-tuned with things. The big one, especially with ultras, I feel like is the long run. If I could nail a long run every single week, and everything else is just kind of easy, then I feel like I'm still in a decent spot. But I put a big, big emphasis on long runs.

Carrie Tollefson: Do you only do one long run a week, or do you have a long one and then a medium?

Nolan McKenna: So currently I just have one long run. In the past, I just came off a 50-mile training block. In that one, I was doing back-to-back long runs every single week. But the reality of having a newborn at home, I'm not going to be gone for 2-plus hours on both weekend days. It just seems a little unfair. I just wanted to have that good balance. But currently just doing one long run.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, fun. Okay. We're going to get more into your training and your coaching in a sec. But I do have one question. Have you gotten your Team USA kit yet?

Nolan McKenna: I have not.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, it’s so fun!

Nolan McKenna: Kind of with the shift, and me being kind of a late addition, I'm still waiting, but hopefully it comes soon.

Carrie Tollefson: It is crazy how much stuff you get for one race.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: You'll have all these options of what to wear. Are you going to wear the speed suit? Are you going to wear the shorty-shorts? Will you wear the, whatever, 3-quarter-length tights, or just your shorts, all the things, and then everyone will want a piece of it. So you got to make sure you don't give too much away until you're ready to. You'll probably get a bunch of pins. Have you ever been on a US Team before?

Nolan McKenna: No, I've not. The closest I have been, just a couple months ago -- I work at a running store, and the company, On, does a, they call it squad race. So I was part of our team that we qualified in Chicago, and then they had like, kind of a ‘world championships’ down in Miami. So a bunch of teams, like the winning team from a bunch of cities around the world got to go to Miami and do the squad race. So it's a relay race. There's two guys, two girls. We were running in a parking garage, so it's about a 400-meter course, and you're sprinting through a parking garage. It's super hype. The event is amazing. Such high energy. So there was Chicago, there was LA, there was Toronto, Montreal, and then Mexico City, there was a Brazil team. And I know I'm missing someone, but a couple other teams, but we had some pin trading. But that was the most fun part of the entire experience. So to get to talk with other people on the teams, and get to know them, that was super, super fun, and I'm really looking forward to doing that this time around, too.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, you're going to have a blast. I wonder how long the flight is. Do you know? Have you looked into that yet?

Nolan McKenna: It's like 19 hours, depending on if we're doing a layover, or anything like that. But yeah, super, super long.

Carrie Tollefson: It is long. I flew to Japan and Russia for a couple world championships when I was racing, and it's further than that--

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: --You're going to feel it, but it goes quick. I mean, my latest thing -- and I don't know if I should be the one. I don't take much for any kind of medicine, or anything like that, but I do now, when I travel overseas, I take one Tylenol PM. And then I fall asleep, and then I sleep for a good four or six hours, and then I'm up. So, if you need something, maybe a melatonin or something. You'll be ready for some good sleep, I'm sure, just because you haven't had a ton of it lately.

Nolan McKenna: That's part of the training. I'm going to be-- I don't need to adjust to any time zones because I am on no time zone right now. I am constantly awake. I'm going to have great sleep, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You'll have to credit the baby for that, that's for sure. So let's talk a little bit about your coaching, and again, your training with RunDot. I mean, you now have been using RunDot personally, but also, you have liked it enough to now be a coach. So how did you find RunDot? How did you start using the program and the app?

Nolan McKenna: So I actually started on TriDot. So post college, I was doing some marathons and stuff. And long story short, I just needed a break from just running. So I went over to the triathlon side, and just as a coincidence, I bumped into, who's my coach, Tony Washington. I bumped into him in the pool, and we kind of got connected, and he helped me basically develop as a swimmer, and that was awesome. So I was using TriDot for about a year, year and a half, just doing full on triathlon side of things. But eventually I'm like, I have some goals, still, left and running, that I still feel like I need to pursue. So I went away from triathlon a little bit and came back to running. Because running's always -- I'm a runner. I was a runner who was doing triathlon, not a triathlete. So it came back to running, and switched over to RunDot. Some pretty big differences in what my training was like in college, and high school, and everything, to what I'm doing now. But at the end of the day, I'm in the camp that believes you put in the work, you put in the consistency, and I think there's a lot of different avenues to get to where you want to go. But TriDot, or RunDot, is been a great avenue to allow me to have a good balance between training, and life, and now a baby, and a family.

Carrie Tollefson: So that, I think, is important for people to hear, like why you would tell someone to use RunDot. I mean, you obviously could do the training on your own, or seek people that could help you write workouts. But you've gotten to this new age, and you have a coach on top of it, but talk a little bit about why someone might be like, “No, I don't know if I need something generated for me. I want to have the old school way.” Why would you say come on over to the AI side of things, kind of type?

Nolan McKenna: Essentially, the time aspect is a huge, huge thing.

Carrie Tollefson: What do you mean by that?

Nolan McKenna: So how much time you're needing to put into training. So for example, in college I was running 100 miles a week. I was doing core, I was doing strides, I was doing all the things. And all-in-all, I was probably putting in 15 hours a week of training. And that was training for a 5k, or an 8k. And now, training for a 50k -- much, much longer. You might think, oh, I need to put in 20, 25 hours a week of training. But that's really not the case. When I peek out at some of my big, big weeks, I'm at 8 to 10 hours a week, which is much, much more manageable than trying to just hammer the time and hammer the mileage. And just the timing and simplicity of things is really nice. RunDot does the philosophy fast before far. Previously, most training philosophies give you this big, big block of base training, and then you do some speed, and then you sharpen down, and fine tune things for race day. RunDot almost flips that in reverse. So you work on your form and efficiency first, and then only when it comes to the weeks leading up into that race, and that kind of preparation phase, that's when you build the endurance. The idea that the actual physical endurance to get you to be able to run the distance efficiently, that comes pretty quickly. People go from a couch to marathon in 18 weeks, and you could do that. Building the endurance comes really quickly. What doesn't come quickly is you're changing your form, changing your efficiency, and building that efficiency in your stride to be able to run the paces that you want to run. So a big portion of the training is focused on exactly that, building that efficiency, before you even start to think about building the endurance to train for the race. So that's a big thing, where you don't have to pound out a ton of miles, but you could work out the efficiency, and form, and build your VO2 max, and lactate thresholds, and build all that stuff without having to do too much volume, which is really nice.

Carrie Tollefson: And you're running the 50k, which is, yeah, you said it's not much further than the marathon, but how does that work with RunDot? Do you have to add? Tell us a little bit more how you get in your mileage. And I know that you said you had a 50-mile week, but is that your biggest week that you have with RunDot? Getting ready for-- we hear of athletes, now, that run 150 miles a week at the top level, or at this level that you're at.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: How do you do that, off of 50 miles a week, for 50k?

Nolan McKenna: Well, when I said I am coming off a 50-mile training block, that was a 50-mile race that I was training for. So currently, my mileage is probably about 60 miles a week. In that training block, I did a 50-miler, and that race went really, really well. So it actually feels like I'm coming down in distance, funny enough. I'm coming back to mid-distance with the 50K. But yeah, having that experience. So a big part of my last training block was back-to-back long runs, and I would try and add up the mileage in both long runs and train, I think I peaked out at 56 miles in a weekend.

Carrie Tollefson: In a weekend, not in a week. A weekend.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. And I peaked out that week. I think I was like 105 miles for the week. But it's pretty easy to get up there in mileage when two of your days are 20, 25 plus. So mileage adds up really quickly. But one thing RunDot looks at, is they're training you to be able to run for a certain amount of time, not necessarily a distance. Your body can't really tell distance, but it could know how long you're doing the thing for. So it's like, I'm training to run for about three hours at a pretty hard intensity, and hopefully a little bit less than three hours. But if I could train that, then that's all I need to do. And I don't necessarily need to have a huge amount of mileage in order to get that done.

Carrie Tollefson: So when you are comparing your times before RunDot and after RunDot, can you do that? Can we talk about that a little bit? How have they-- have they improved? Have they stayed the same, with a little bit less mileage but more intensity? What have you seen different?

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, I mean, for me, it's probably pretty similar, but the amount of time that I'm able to put in -- if I had more time, I feel like I could be a lot better than I even was in college. But working multiple jobs, and having a life, and having a family, I'm still able to pretty much hit the times I was hitting in college -- when I was on easy mode back in college. Yeah, it was amazing.

Carrie Tollefson: That's cool. So you ran -- let's talk about your collegiate career. So you ran at North Central College. And tell us a little bit about that. Were you always a longer-distance guy? Were you a middle-distance guy, then found your way to the long stuff as you got older?

Nolan McKenna: I mean, I kind of floated in between. So in high school, I was mile, two mile, and I was pretty successful in high school. And then originally, I went to Iowa State right out of high school. That's where I first went, and honestly, had kind of a rough experience there. I got injured my senior year of high school and was never able to overcome that hurdle of feeling like I was behind. It was a tricky situation of navigating the transfer portal and everything. But I knew I wanted to be somewhere where, regardless of my performance, I would be accepted into this family and this team. And North Central was that community for me. Al Curious was our coach. He was the best, amazing, most energetic, life and blood of the sport kind of guy. He was amazing. So I went to North Central. I was there for three years. I did two years at Iowa State. So coming out of Iowa State, I did have a lot of race anxiety and stuff like that. A lot of baggage in terms of training. So it did take me a while to get that off my shoulders and stuff. And even sometimes, still, I don't feel like I've completely left all of that behind, of race anxiety, and just anxiety, and depression, and all those things. It is something that I feel like is under-talked about and underrepresented in our sport. We probably should talk about how training, and how racing, affects us personally and emotionally. I think we should talk about that a lot more. But it did take me a little bit to get over that. I actually didn't even make the top 10. I went from running at a D1 program to not making the top 10 at the D3 level. And we did win Nationals, and we set a points record that year of widest win margin, but I wasn't even in the top 10. But I was still so happy to just be a part of that team and be a part of the culture. The team culture is such that it doesn't matter if you're the first guy on the team or the last guy on the team. We win together, we lose together. And we did a fair amount of winning, which was awesome. So I didn't have super big personal success until about my fifth year, where that's when I finally made the top 7. I was our sixth runner on the day, of Cross-Country Nationals, where we won. So the three years I was at Iowa State, we won Cross-Country Nationals all three years, at the D3 level. And then I was part of a couple track national teams, too. We won one, and then we're second place a couple other times. But yeah, the track nationals that meant the most to me was my fifth year, where I was able to actually score and compete. So yeah, I was actually blanking on what place I even was.

Carrie Tollefson: Welcome to my world, too. I’m like, “I don't remember what that was.”

Nolan McKenna: I'm like, I know I was second going into the last 100, but then I got out-kicked, how many people passed me? But yeah, so I think I was fifth in the Indoor 3000. That was my best place. Being able to score points and win for the team -- going into the final event, our coach was like, “Hey, we just need a couple more points.” And me and my other teammate, who was also running the 3K, we're like, “Alright, let's get it done.” And we nailed it down for the team. So regardless of what happened in the 4 x 4, we had secured the win, which was just such an amazing feeling. It was awesome.

Carrie Tollefson: I'm trying to think of who was your superstar at Iowa State then? At that time?

Nolan McKenna: It was Drivel Patel.

Carrie Tollefson: Okay. Oh, yeah. So trying to think of, who are the guys that -- there's a couple out there right now, and I'm just blanking on their names, but they're out there racing now on the roads.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Ryan Root is another one. Johnny Crane was a little bit before my time, but he was racing at a very, very high level. Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So you've had a lot of guys around you.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: I mean, it's pretty cool that you're honest with how hard this sport is and--

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: --and also, I think because we are these athletes that are so goal-driven, and results-driven, that even though we love it, and we love the community and all of it, we can be really hard on ourselves. And I think not only athletes that are at D1 level, or that are making US teams, it's athletes of all shapes and sizes, of all backgrounds. This can be -- it's a humbling sport every single day. It's hard. Even your easy runs are hard.

Nolan McKenna: Absolutely.

Carrie Tollefson: It's good to hear. And I'm sorry that you went through some dark times, but I also am like, yeah, that's kind of what life is about, is how we get through dark times. And I'm thankful you have the run, because it seems to lift you up and bring you joy, as well.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Yeah. And our stories, that's what makes us who we are. And I believe that our challenges and our dark times, God gives us that as a way to connect to other people. So it's like, I went through something hard, so it's kind of my job, and my opportunity, to share that and help people through their dark times.

Carrie Tollefson: For sure. And isn't it amazing the conversations you have on a run? There are times where you would never tell anyone, like some of your deepest secrets, and you get out there on a 25-mile run, or the next day when you're doing your second 25-miler, and everything just kind of comes out. It is, a lot of times -- I don't even know if it's a therapy session, or if it's just that, oops, we're just breathing and talking and it's coming out. But it is pretty special, when you have those breakthrough moments, not only physically, but spiritually and all of that. We know that you have a GoFundMe link to help raise money for your trip, and we're going to put this on our pages, so talk a little bit about that. And then I want to talk about runDisney too, as well, because you had a fun weekend there.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. So, the GoFundMe was really, I wouldn't be able to do this without that. Traveling to India is a pretty big expense with the flights, the hotel, and having a new baby, and my wife being on maternity leave that was unpaid. It's just, things are pretty tight, but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity that I really just can't pass up. So, leaning back on my community for that support has been amazing. I'm so thankful, and so grateful, for all the people who have supported. That's been the biggest thing to get us through this squeeze point. Yeah, for sure.

Carrie Tollefson: Nice. Well, we'll definitely spread the word a little bit. It'd be fun to help you out. Okay, runDisney. Let's talk about that. So which one? Just tell us everything.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, so I've done a couple different ones. I've done the Springtime Surprise; I've done that a couple times. But the big one was the Walt Disney World Marathon Weekend, where I did the Dopey Challenge. It's a series race, so it's four days of races in a row. Day one is a 5K, day two is a 10K, day three is a half marathon, and then day four is a marathon.

Carrie Tollefson: And it's at like 3am. It's before the park opens. So they start a little earlier every day? Is that what they do?

Nolan McKenna: No, I think most of them were right at -- I think the first two days were 5am. And then I think they shifted it up to 4:30 for the other two. But our half marathon, actually, got cut short due to weather. There were some pretty severe thunderstorms, so I did my normal little warm up, and they shortened it to a 7.2-mile race, or something like that. So I did that race, and then me and a couple other people, who were also doing the challenge -- by day three, you kind of knew the people you're running around. So we all ran parking lot loops to get to the 13.1. Because we signed up for the race, I'm going to do the 13.1. It's not going to be Dopey Challenge unless I do the full 13.1. But yeah, racing all four days -- I've always been so jealous of something like the Tour de France, where I really want a stage race, where, let's just race every single day. And for me, this is one of the closest things to that, where you're gas burning every single day. To be able to go wake up at 3am to start the race at four. And we were ripping sub 5-minute miles every single day. It was super fun. I was trying to – originally, I was trying to sweep all of them. I didn't end up pulling that up. But I won the 5K, I was second in the 10K, I won the 7-mile, and then I was fourth in the marathon, I think. And I basically, I almost set a PR in the marathon after racing for three days, which was awesome. So I know I have a lot left in the tank for my marathon career. I think maybe after this block, I might go back and try and run a fast marathon. I missed my PR by like 30 seconds, I think. But I did have a character stop. I stopped to take a picture with Goofy. That might have cost me the PR.

Carrie Tollefson: I'm sure it did. And it probably cost you a place.

Nolan McKenna: But I mean, runDisney, it's not really about the times or anything, which is the cool thing. People are dressing up in costumes. I got this Tigger singlet

Carrie Tollefson: Did you wear a costume?

Nolan McKenna: I had a singlet that was a Tigger singlet. That was so fun. So a couple of the days I did dress up. I did a Powerline t-shirt for one of them -- Powerline from the Goofy movie. It's just so fun. No one really cares about the times. I'm probably one of the few people that was – like, you don't run a runDisney race to run a PR. I was one of the few people trained to actually race it. But runDisney, they do a really good job. Out of all the marathons, the most fun I've had in the marathon is the runDisney Marathon.

Carrie Tollefson: I've never done one, but I worked with -- and I've worked with her a few times -- Carissa Galloway, who's the voice of Disney.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: So that's kind of cool. I know that so many people just love the races. So I’m going to have to get out there.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, people take pictures with characters. They stop and ride rides during the race. And there's live bands, there's characters.

Carrie Tollefson: They will ride rides during their races? The teacups, they just go for a little teacup ride.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah. Expedition Everest is a big one that they're riding. And it's like, how often can you say you rode a ride during a race? Yeah, it's so fun.

Carrie Tollefson: I just always think back to when I went -- we used to go every other year with the kids. We haven't gone in a few years. But the last time we went, I rode the Tower of Terror. And first of all, I did not know that was what it was going to do. I knew there was a drop, but I did not know it was that kind of a drop. And there was this basketball player sitting next to me, and my husband was sitting three seats over from me. And this big guy, his knee was higher than the handle of my chair. And all I know is I grabbed this guy's leg, and I was like, “Oh!” The whole time I was grabbing his leg, not the handle of the chair. And I get done, and he's like a 16-year-old kid and he’s from Australia. And I was like, “I promise you, I am not a weird American mom -- or American lady. I just thought that was my handle of my chair.”

Nolan McKenna: That's so funny. Oh my gosh.

Carrie Tollefson: I seriously thought I was going to die. I'm like, “Charlie, something's wrong with this ride.” It was wild. So fun. Okay, let's wrap up a little bit because we could chat all day, it seems like.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, for sure.

Carrie Tollefson: I have one more question about you as a runner and as a coach. You've done a lot now, obviously, in this sport. You've been through some ups and downs and things, but what do you think your one piece of advice would be, for an athlete that's getting into RunDot or getting into the sport itself?

Nolan McKenna: I would say don't take things too seriously. I think a lot of times it feels almost like life or death. Like, “I need to do this, I need to perform. Things need to be perfect.” And if running and life has taught me anything, it's that nothing is perfect. Things are messy. Things are going to deviate from the perfect path. But as long as you keep moving forward and keep having fun with things -- my whole thing is I believe that God gave us our gifts and talents in order to connect with other people. That's a big part of my belief. So I need to use running as a way to connect with other people and share that, because I think the connections we make along the way and the friendships -- that's what is really meaningful in the sport. So, yeah, don't take things too seriously. There's a million different ways you could go about things. There's no right or wrong answer. For a while, I was doing a Breaking 5 series, where I would break five minutes in the mile doing a bunch of goofy things. So I did a blue jeans mile, broke five in blue jeans. I broke five in cowboy boots. I broke five in Crocs. Just a few different things. But things are fun. Don't take yourself too seriously. Don't take running too seriously. Running is supposed to be fun. Let's have some fun with it.

Carrie Tollefson: Well, have so much fun in New Delhi. We do have one more question, but I really appreciate the time, and I'm excited for you. I think you're going to have a lot of fun wearing that USA jersey.

Nolan McKenna: Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Tollefson: Turmoil here in the States right now. There's a lot going on. No matter what way you lean, or if you're right down the middle, it doesn't matter. There's a lot of stuff going on. And I know for me, too -- even though, right now, some people aren't real proud of being an American, but I think when you have the opportunity to wear your country's jersey, and you think of everyone and everything that this country stands for, it's pretty amazing. So you're going to have a blast. I can't wait to hear how you feel when you get your jersey. You're going to have to come back on and tell us about it

Nolan McKenna: I’m so excited.

[Transition Sound Effect]

Carrie Tollefson: Okay, we're going to head to the cool down now, which is always my favorite part of the workout, anyway. I was always nervous on the warm up, and then you had to be so focused during the actual workout part of things. And then the cool down, you could just be so proud of yourself. This question comes from our audience, and Stephanie wrote in, “I've always put my treadmill at 1% incline, because everyone says that it replicates the feeling of running outside better than having the treadmill at 0%.” Is this true, or is there a better way for her to train on the treadmill?

Nolan McKenna: So if you're looking to replicate outdoor running, I would say the paces will be more accurate to outdoor running if you do put it at that 1% incline. But running inside versus outside, there are just some naturally inherent differences, like you're using some different muscle types and stuff. Me, personally, I would just rather put it at zero, and run a little bit quicker, and get a little ego boost. I think at zero, you could run at, probably, 10 to 15 seconds faster per mile than you can running outside. I would rather just feel good about myself, like, “Wow! Look how fast I'm running.” And, yeah, get that little boost of confidence and stuff, rather than have it more ‘accurate’ and have it at a 1% incline. And I think there might be some benefit of having it at zero and running faster, because you do get a little bit more of a turnover. And I think you're training your nervous system to run at faster paces, even though it's a little easier. So I think you could build some of that higher frequency, higher stride efficiency, at those faster paces. I think using a treadmill as a tool in that way, we could utilize that. But, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you need to view the treadmill as a tool, not a crutch. It's a tool to help us get to where we want to go. But if you're looking for an easy way out, and you're going on the treadmill because it's easier or something, then that's probably not the way to go.

Carrie Tollefson: It's really interesting that you say that, because even like, you look at C.J. Albertson, who is kind of a staple, right, for American marathoning. We see him at the Boston Marathon every year. We see him at different marathons throughout the year. But for Boston, for instance, people know that that is a really hilly course, and there's some really strong downhills in the beginning -- and he's even put bricks under his treadmill for him to do some declines. He wants to pound his quads and learn how to run downhill. So I think I always run at 1%, a lot of times, because that's just what my treadmills were set at. When you start a run, some of them are, that's the automatic percentage that it goes to. But I think that if you can use it as a tool, like you said, and just train however you want, but you have to adjust. Like you said, if you're going to go at 0%, you might want to go a little quicker than you thought you would. There's just different ways of approaching it. That’s interesting. That’s good advice, Coach.

Nolan McKenna: I don't like the idea, like, “Oh, I ran this on the treadmill. That means I'm in this kind of shape.” It doesn't necessarily work that way.

Carrie Tollefson: I mean, it's also interesting how many people do incline intervals, where they might do eight minutes at 8%, six minutes at 6%. Just have fun with it. If you're on the treadmill, it gets very monotonous. So I think, as you said, if we can have fun in our training, work hard, breathe hard, sweat, follow RunDot, follow Coach Nolan, we'll be good.

Nolan McKenna: And essentially, training -- we're training to get adaptations, not necessarily just practicing running at certain paces. If you think of it like that, you're training to get your body to adapt in a certain way. And it doesn't need to be a dress rehearsal of, “Oh, my race pace is 5:30. I need to practice running 5:30 every single time.” It doesn't have to be like that.

Carrie Tollefson: Ebbs and flows. We like it. Alright, Nolan, go get them! USA! USA! You got this!

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