One Race, Three Journeys - IRONMAN World Championship in Nice, France

TriDot Podcast Episode 208

One Race, Three Journeys - IRONMAN World Championship in Nice, France

Announcer: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together.

Andrew Harley: The Men's IRONMAN World Championships happened in Nice, France and we need to talk all about it now. Admittedly I was not going to do a podcast about this race but then it happened and I started to hear the stories and well here we are. We have three TriDot athletes who qualified and raced in Nice here to share how it went over there in the French Riviera. Our first athlete joining us for this is TriDot coach Kurt Madden. Kurt is a pioneer of the sport and a 10 time Kona finisher. He has three top 10 finishes at the IRONMAN World Championships, is a four time North American age group champion and is a four time number one world ranked age group IRONMAN all world athlete. And as if 140.6 miles is not enough, he is also a two time Ultraman world champion and in 2019 was inducted into the Ultraman World Championship Hall of Fame. In addition, he has a Master's degree in Exercise Physiology and he is now officially on board with TriDot as the head of Coach Development. Coach Kurt, welcome back to the show.

Kurt Madden: Bonjour Andrew. It's great to be back on the podcast.

Andrew Harley: Next up is TriDot Coach Jeff Raines. Jeff is a USA Triathlon Level 2 certified coach, an IRONMAN Youth Certified coach and a TriDot Master coach who has a Master of Science in Exercise Physiology and was a D1 collegiate runner. He has over 60 IRONMAN event finishes to his credit and has coached hundreds of athletes to the IRONMAN finish line. Jeff has been training and coaching with TriDot since 2015. Welcome back Jeff.

Jeff Raines: Oh thanks Andrew. Bonjour. Merci. And I will say I accidentally said gracias a few times out in France on accident.

Andrew Harley: Oh no. Oh no.

Jeff Raines: But I'm glad to be back in the good old US of A. But I had a blast in France with these boys here and I cannot wait to talk shop.

Andrew Harley: Completing our trio today is TriDot Ambassador Chris Kennel. Chris served in the United States Air Force and now works as the Vice President of Operations at Safe Systems Inc. He started racing triathlons in 2014 and is now an eight time IRONMAN finisher. He's raced the World Championships in both St. George and Nice. He and his family live in Sugar Hill, Georgia. Chris, thanks for joining us man. It's good to see you.

Chris Kennel: Thanks for having me guys. Andrew, it's great to be here and huge fan of the show. I think I've listened to all of them so far. I'll go ahead and plug that. So I'll just say, longtime listener, first time caller.

Andrew Harley: Love it. Love it, man. I am Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack. As always, we'll roll through our warmup question, settle in for our main set conversation and then wind things down with our cooldown. Before we get too deep into the show today, I want to give a shout out to our good friends at UCAN. Here at TriDot, we are huge believers in using UCAN to fuel our training and racing. In the crowded field of nutrition companies, what separates UCAN from the pack is the science behind LiveSteady, the key ingredient in UCAN products. While most energy powders are filled with sugar or stimulants that cause a spike and crash, UCAN energy powders powered by LiveSteady deliver a steady release of complex carbs to give you stable blood sugar and provide long lasting energy. I personally fuel my workouts with the orange flavored Edge gel and the unflavored UCAN energy powder. Between their Energy mix, energy bars, almond butter and more, there is definitely a LiveSteady product that you will love. So head to their website UCAN.co and use the code TRIDOT to save 20% on your entire order. Now that code used to be 10%, but the fine folks at UCAN have upped it to 20% for TriDot Nation. So once again, that's UCAN.co promo code TriDot.

Announcer: Time to warm up. Let's get moving.

Andrew Harley: There was a lot of chatter when IRONMAN first announced they were splitting the World Championships and putting a race in Nice, France for 2023 and 2024. Now we'll find out in our main set what you guys thought of the race in Nice. But for our warm up question, what I want to know from you three is this. If you could put the IRONMAN World Championships anywhere in the world besides Kona, of course, and go race it all over again in a new location, where would you want to see IRONMAN put the World Championships next? Kurt Madden, I know you've raced a few of these things in three different cities. Now where would you say, where would you want to race this?

Kurt Madden: Yeah, you know, for our listeners, they might be surprised or not surprised by my response. But when I look at the history of IRONMAN, I think it is now set. We have established that baseline in Nice and it's kind of like the ying and the yang. You've got Kona on one end and then you've got Nice on the other because it's really epic. It is very, very, very humbling. The views are spectacular. And I think starting a new history and giving it some time, I can look back in the early 80s. Kona in 1982 was not the Kona of today, but we've got some seedlings out there. And I think as I look at that, how many people can say, I raced a world championship in Nice, France. To me, that's huge.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. So you would like to see it remain in Nice, which is a really interesting answer here. Jeff Raines, what do you think here, bud?

Jeff Raines: Somewhere international, maybe New Zealand. Let's see how next year's half IRONMAN World Championship goes there. And then is there capacity to do a full out there.

Andrew Harley: Jeff, if anybody from IRONMAN is listening, you're really helping them narrow it down here just by saying anywhere international from the United States, you know, really, does that help at all? But no good feedback. And I'll jump in with my answer because you said it. My answer here is New Zealand. I've said on the podcast many times it was my first half IRONMAN. And so honestly, when you watch the race, like it's epic watching the race in Kona, because it's Kona, it's epic. It was epic watching the footage of France because you're watching these guys climb and descend and all this stuff. And it really made for a great viewing experience from my house in Dallas, Texas. New Zealand. To me, I don't think it would be as epic of a race in terms of watching the pros duke it out for a world title. Me saying New Zealand is a very selfish response. I loved the swim in New Zealand. The water is crystal clear. The water is beautiful, it's calm, it's a lake. And if I'm going to swim 2.4 miles again anywhere in the world for a world championship, I want it to be in the waters of that lake in Taupo, New Zealand. The bike is flat and fast. The run was nice and well supported by the crowd. And so just selfishly, I would enjoy getting on that course again and spending double the time there for my first experience there. Chris Kennel. Where would you want to see IRONMAN put the world championships?

Chris Kennel: So while I agree with Kurt and Jeff, Nice was just an amazing place. I mean, there is no doubt after doing that bike ride that the best of the best came out on the other end. I mean, gorgeous. And I do agree with Kurt. It'd be nice to. I like how it is polarized. You know, it's a little yin and yang. You get a little best of both worlds. But, you know, the nerd in me in the sport, you know, loving the history of the sport, I'm gonna go in a little bit different direction and maybe where it all started, maybe something in Mission Bay. Although I'm sure nowadays that would just be a logistical nightmare for that. But I think that would be cool. Maybe not consistently, but maybe throw that into the mix with the international as well. I think that would be really cool.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Kurt, what do you think of that? You gave a pretty solid head nod there. That's your neck of the woods.

Kurt Madden: Yeah, we could. I know people. We just need a few credit cards and checkbooks. But that would be very epic to have it actually finish right where the triathlon started. That would be.

Chris Kennel: Yeah. Maybe on some anniversary or something. I think that would be really cool.

Andrew Harley: The 100 year anniversary of the original IRONMAN. We return to Mission Bay, California. Great answer, Chris. Hey, we're gonna throw this question out to our audience like we always do. Make sure you're a part of the I Am TriDot Facebook group where we have tens of thousands of triathletes talking shop every single day in that group. I always throw out this question to you on the Monday this show debuts. Where would you most want to see IRONMAN put the IRONMAN World Championships. Can't wait to see what you have to say.

Announcer: On to the main set going in 3, 2, 1.

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Andrew Harley: A whole lot happened in Nice, France. A new city hosted the IRONMAN World Championship. A new course was debuted, a new champion was crowned. At the time we're recording and posting this episode, it's all pretty fresh, I think Jeff said just a few days ago they were all traveling home from France. It was all just last weekend and all three of our guests today were there for all of that newness in Nice. And you were there because you qualified to be there. It's a huge honor to race the IRONMAN World Championships. And so I'm just kind of curious to hear where did each of you qualify for Nice? Kurt Madden, where did it happen for you?

Kurt Madden: You know, as I look back on that, Andrew, I actually qualified at IRONMAN Arizona.

Andrew Harley: Jeff Raines, your qualification wasn't quite as conventional as they sometimes are. Tell us about the moment you got the email that told you qualified.

Jeff Raines: I got an email for a roll down opportunity from IRONMAN California back in fall of 2022. But it took me four years to do that. IRONMAN California, you know, Arizona. But I had a baby born and so I deferred to the next year and the next year was Covid and instead of doing Arizona that year, it was an inaugural opportunity for California. So I said, okay, let's travel or train a whole third year now and go to California instead of what the original Arizona was. So year three, I trained all year. And then we all know what happened the first year at California. It rained out, the plug was pulled and the rug was pulled out from under us the morning of the race at the swim start. And so then I went back and trained a fourth year to try to do this race. And then it was a great day out there, very windy, but IRONMAN California went, went pretty decent for me. And so a four year journey to finish IRONMAN California and for me doing relatively, you know, pretty decent out there. When that roll down opportunity came, I jumped on it.

Andrew Harley: Chris Kennel, where and how did you qualify for Nice?

Chris Kennel: So similar to Coach Raines, I received the email from IRONMAN Chattanooga the year before. So it was a little bit mixed feelings for me, you know, I mean honestly it, you know, it felt a little watered down to me. You know, I felt like I didn't, you know, yeah, sure, just because of the way it all, it all went down. But you know, after talking to the wife I had to seize that opportunity and I'm so glad I did for that once in a lifetime experience. But with that said, it was always my goal to qualify at Coeur d'Alene this year. So I put my head down. I have coach Tony Washington. We put in the hard work, and it just. It really helped me validate, you know, earning that spot. So I got a top 10 finish at Coeur d'Alene.

Andrew Harley: Oh, that's awesome.

Chris Kennel: And how sweet it was when they said my name and I said, nope, I already have one. It felt so good. So kudos to Tony and it was great.

Andrew Harley: Now, when Nice was first announced as the host city, there seemed to be just kind of a mixed reaction from the IRONMAN population. I mean, the common sentiment seemed to be, Nice is nice and all, but it's not Kona for the three of you. I mean, did you feel like you were flying to France for the IRONMAN World Championship, or did it feel a little less epic because it wasn't a plane down for Kona? Jeff Raines, what do you think?

Jeff Raines: There was a little bit of sadness, even anger at the same time, I think, you know, there was a, you know, call it a mild uproar. And just the triathlon community in general when the announcements were made, you know, I think the iconic Kona experience, it can't be replicated. And so that. That was the mindset, the thought, you just can't have that prestige anywhere else. And. And, you know, I think largely, you know, and that's largely, I guess, why I was able to race in France, because there were a number of men who had already paid and signed up for Kona. And when they found out, right, that it was now going to be in. In Nice, France, a lot of them said, no way. That's not fair. Like, I didn't know that, you know, and so because they were pushed for the first time, you know, an IRONMAN World Championship, there was actually a deferral option for the previous year, or, excuse me, for the following year. That was the first time that's ever been done. And so because a handful of those men pushed to next year, Kona, it allowed for some of us to kind of slip in there at the last minute. So because of all that, it was unique. It was different. People were upset, they were sad, they were mad. But I think everyone was just a little bit confused. We all understand it needed to happen and why. But now kind of, as I referred to earlier on the back end of it and being there all week, it delivered. The prestige was the same, and it is going to even be even more prestige for the following years that it is out there. Nice, France did great. And I think the, the only thing now that that is unique is that I, you know, I, I like racing alongside women. I like having them out there. And so now that we know that, that France is going to be awesome. It is awesome. It is an amazing IRONMAN World Championship. The prestige is the same as Kona and all of that. The, the only missing link now really is, you know, trying to get men and women back on the same day. And so I, I know that that all is being worked on, but it was great. It wasn't less epic because it wasn't Kona, in my opinion. Now, I still do have that dream of doing a world championship in Kona, you know, with that being said, but it was great. I think it all came together perfectly.

Andrew Harley: Now, Chris, your first World Championship was the St. George World Championship. So you've done the world champs twice and neither of them were Kona. I mean, do you feel a little bit like there's something missing from your triathlon kind of checkbox there? Or did you feel like Nice was every bit as epic as going to Kona would have been?

Chris Kennel: So I guess two separate. I mean, your first question, did it feel like the World Championship? I would say yes to that answer.

Andrew Harley: Cool.

Chris Kennel: I mean, the vibe, it all felt like a world championship event. However, again, as a, you know, a fan of the sport and the history itself, like, selfishly to me, like, you know, to your point, I don't think my journey will be complete until I step foot on the Big Island. So.

Andrew Harley: Which I think is a fair sentiment from both of you. Right? That. Okay, yeah, it was epic. We loved it. It absolutely felt like a world class world championship event. But there's only one. There's only one Kona. I mean, that is totally a fair sentiment. Kurt, I saved you for last here because you've done Kona so many times. You love the Big Island so much, your nickname for your wife is the Queen of Kona. And so curious to hear your thoughts here on. Did it feel as prestigious for you going to Nice for this event as when you travel to the Big Island?

Kurt Madden: Yeah, I think, you know, the way I am programmed when I look at August and September is I am going to Kona.

Andrew Harley: Okay?

Kurt Madden: That's my mindset and I've done it for so many years. It's hard to unprogram that feeling. Plus I'm getting five athletes ready for Kona. The reality sunk in, like with about a week to go. No, wait a minute. You are not going to get on an airplane and head west. You're going to get on an airplane and head east. And that's when it kind of sunk in. And then on the flight over there, I'm like, yes, I'm going to Nice, France for a world championship. This is going to be super, super, super challenging. So for me, that's when it kind of finally hit.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. So I was 100% supposed to be in Nice and in fact, Chris and Jeff and some of us, like we were going to record some podcasts over there, we were going to do some YouTube shows from over there. And in fact, I was supposed to be sitting right next to Jeff Raines on the plane to Nice, France. And the day our flight, the day of our flight, I decided to pull the plug and not go. For whatever reason, the day of my flight, I just had major anxiety. The closer I got to the flight, just I felt claustrophobic. I felt a little out of sorts. And at first I thought it was for just being afraid of the flight for whatever reason. But in hindsight, talking with my wife about it, I really feel like it was leaving the baby for the first time kind of anxiety. I'm optimistic about getting on the flight for Kona here in a couple weeks time, but I was allowed to stay back and just kind of be with the family and I was right where I needed to be. But with that said, I did have a little bit of FOMO. Seeing all the pictures from out and around Nice just from afar on social media, it seems like a fantastic host city. What did you guys think? I mean, I mean, setting the race completely to the side. What were your big time memories that you made just traveling and sightseeing around Nice? Chris Kennel, the general hospitality of.

Chris Kennel: The city was amazing. It was similar to St. George for me. The city seemed very accepting of the race, you know, the athletes that were involved. I've been to other IRONMAN locations. I'm sure Kurt can validate this. And you just, you don't get that hospitality, you know, nothing like it. For me, you know, it's one, it was one of the most beautiful places on earth I've ever been swimming in the Mediterranean, you know, doing those warm up swims, going out to that far buoy and turning around and just trying to take in that view of the city and the mountains behind it. Something I'll never forget. Leading up to it, you know, like any good tourist and American, we took a Segway tour around the city. A good way to orient myself with the city and save the legs a little bit for the race. Took a tour to Monaco, Monte Carlo, I think it's called Eze. Some medieval style city just sitting up on a village. Absolutely gorgeous. I'm sure Raines and Kurt can agree. The culture there was amazing. The food, my wife could not get enough gelato. It was just good for her. All epic. And you know, I joked with my wife that it all seemed a bit fake, you know, not in a bad way. You know, almost too good to be true. Pictures can't capture it. And I was joking with her. We're kind of Disney buffs. Disney people. Yeah, I've heard you are as well, Andrew. But it's almost the way Disney would. To me, in my head, it was almost like the way Disney would create a French area in a theme park. It was okay. It was almost so stereotypical, so beautiful.

Andrew Harley: Chris, it's funny, like when you talk about the mountains and the beach, like growing up in Florida, living in Texas, like, my, my orientation, my reference point for beaches is the beaches are nice, the water is nice, everything near the beach is flat. And so when I've traveled to New Zealand, when I've traveled to Greece, when I've traveled to California and visited beaches there, like, it's, it's very wild to me to be on a beach and turn around and there's a mountain. And that's what you have in Nice, right, is you're on the beach and you turn around and there are the mountains that you're about to bike up into. Kurt, for you, how was your time in Nice? How did you find the city?

Kurt Madden: Yeah, it was, it was really spectacular. It's kind of ironic as I look through the rear view mirror that Mark Allen and I raced there back in the 80s. So to fast forward, it's like, well, I'm coming back home. So right when I landed, I had an opportunity to have a driver pick me up and he drove me to the Von Bergs. So you can imagine you are in Nice, France. You've been up several hours. He doesn't speak English and you speak very little French. But the vibe was good in the car. He's playing the music. So all of a sudden I show up to the Von Bergs home. Rudy Jr. and Rudy Sr. So I've known Rudy Sr. for about 40 years. And all of a sudden I pull up and I'm going to, oh my gosh, this is like a castle. This is like a chateau with a guest house. So I show up there and they, they take me through, you know, the house, they show me the guest house. They said, hey, we've got a 25 meter pool. I said, what? They said, yeah, just go like 100 yards and you can swim there anytime. Six acres with a view of the ocean. And just getting into that lifestyle with people, you know, in their home, it was beyond chill. It was like, okay, we're gonna have a little coffee in the morning, do your training. We'll have some breakfast at one o'clock, right at one o'clock we're gonna have a salad with protein. We're gonna have our tea and espresso at 3. At 7, we're gonna have our dinner that will go two hours and then we're gonna have tea, chocolate and ginger. So doing that was pretty incredible. And then being with people, you know, I didn't feel like a stranger. But then it was that reality. Let's get out on the bike course. So Rudy Jr., Rudy Sr. took me out and I'm like, okay, I am racing on Sunday. It is now Thursday. We don't need to ride five hours. And they know that course, you know, like all of us, we ride typical courses all the time. So that was that wake up call. But just going through the mountains, you could smell the French coffee and tea. You could smell the French bread. You could see the descents, you could see the climbing. So it gave me some perspective. So that couldn't have been any better. And then transferring to the Le Meridien, I was 200 yards from the finish line and I said to myself, you know, it's not going to be difficult to find my way home. I think I can actually do that. An added bonus, at the Le Meridien, I had a very special guest right across the hallway. You might have heard of this guy, Jan Frodeno.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I heard of him, yeah.

Kurt Madden: Yeah, I only saw him like 10 times. I'm like, yeah. Is my snoring keeping you up at night? He goes, no, you're, you're good, man. Let's take a few pictures. Boom, boom, boom. So for me, just to get the, again, kind of that ying and the yang of being in a home and then going right to the, the venue and just looking out, just having a latte and looking out on the water of the Mediterranean, just like Chris said, it's like, you cannot buy that. I mean, you have to experience it yourself. It's really a life changing kind of endeavor. So, yeah, I was pretty pumped.

Andrew Harley: Kurt, the way you're describing it, it sounds like the Nice lifestyle was designed for Andrew Harley. So I will definitely make sure I am there next year for the women's World Championship to have my espresso at three and my lunch salad at one and all of that jazz. Jeff Raines, how did you enjoy it? So like Jeff was the first person I called since I was supposed to fly with you when I was like, hey man, I'm not going to go. I won't see you in DFW airport. And you were so gracious about it and it was fun. It was your first international flight like ever. Which is super cool to me that this is the occasion you got to travel internationally for. So what was the experience like for you going over to France and having your first big trip like that?

Jeff Raines: You know, I think Chris and Kurt captured it perfectly. I have the exact same feelings and. But I'll say this, you know, I, I halfway wanted to go to race, do the world championship experience, all of that. But the other half was, yeah, I've never been international. I wanted that stereotypical, right Chris, that Disney France, you know, I wanted it to be that stereotypical experience and it was.

Andrew Harley: Jeff, did you have any gelato?

Jeff Raines: I did not actually have gelato. I had tons of.

Andrew Harley: You gotta go back.

Jeff Raines: I know, I know. I had tons of other awesome things. But, you know, I was able to super experience the city. I got there, I left on a Monday, it was a 19 hour flight there, 25 hour flight home. I wanted to go halfway also to learn the international, big experience as a coach so that I can relay that to my athletes firsthand. And I experienced it all. You know, I had a little bit of stress, but I enjoyed it the whole time and I will say that it more than delivered. And I left on a Monday, got there really, really late Tuesday, met with Jeff Booher and we all went out to eat because they all eat at 9 and 10pm there, right? I was jet lagged and tired, but I was starving. And we went to this, the coolest place. It was dark, it was my first experience of the city stone building. Sitting out at this little table. I got this lasagna and yes, it was the best lasagna of my entire life. I loved that. That was my first experience, first night there and it was Tuesday. Well, guess what? Saturday afternoon, the night before the race, I went back. A lot had happened all week and I just, I loved that first night experience. I love that lasagna. So I went back to that same place, had that lasagna as my pre race meal and just kind of like soaked in the whole week. The race is tomorrow. Oh my gosh, it's coming it's here. The moment we've been waiting for. I've been here all week. It goes by fast. All week's kind of a blur. And then all of a sudden it's here. So I kind of went back to that first restaurant that first night and just sat back, soaked it all in and just had an aha moment. I went to dinner by myself that night and got that lasagna again. And I'll never forget it.

Andrew Harley: Man, that's awesome. Yep. Love that story. So let's talk about y'all's race. The race starts with the swim. It's a championship. So it's a wave start where you're all starting with your age group. How did it go out in the water? Kurt Madden?

Kurt Madden: Yes. I would say beyond excellent. I mean, for me, right when I walked out of my hotel room, they said, there's no wetsuits. So I grabbed my skin and I said, hey, that's not going to be a problem at all.

Andrew Harley: Aloha, brother. Aloha.

Kurt Madden: Yeah. The check in was super, super organized. And I was in the third wave. So Jeff got a little bit of a head start. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, we are starting in the water with 40 athletes. I mean, that's my love language. It's like, let's get after it. And boom, the gun goes off. And I could see the guy in first and I said, hey, I'll just kind of stay near him. So I was never touched the whole time. I never had. I had to go around some people in the wave before me, but going out was super smooth. Coming back, just like Chris said. The views that you saw of the city and the landscape and the backdrop was like second to none. It was just incredible. The water is really salty. Not quite as salty, Andrew, as Kona, but I swallowed a couple mouthfuls. Okay. I don't need all that precision hydration. I just got some sodium. Right.

Andrew Harley: Yummy Mediterranean water.

Kurt Madden: Yeah. And really, I think the swim for me was just ideal and it couldn't have been any better. I like the water start. I like how we didn't have to go up onto the rocks. I liked also how you were not caught up with, say, age groupers that were just starting off. They had it structured so you were going away from them. So from a traffic control, it was the best.

Andrew Harley: Jeff Raines, what was your swim like?

Jeff Raines: Man, Kurt, I'm jealous because my experience was almost the opposite, man. I know Chris was in my age group. Um, there were hundreds of us. For me, the, the first half was, was pretty chaotic. I mean, I was calm, cool and collected in the moment, but I was bumped and dunked and hit and the first 2K of that 4,200 yards. But, you know, I kept my cool. Honestly, I wanted to just stay smooth all day. I actually, I, I know you're not supposed to look at your watch, but halfway through, right? It's kind of like an M swim course. Halfway through I looked at my watch and then at the finish, getting out, you know, running up the carpet, I looked at my watch. What was my swim time? I honestly, I negative splitted my swim. I negative splitted the bike. Everyone negative splitted the bike, the descent, second half, and I negative splitted my run and I have never done that in a half and or a full. I've never negative splitted all three disciplines in the same day. So I was able to remain calm. I loved it. Um, for me, the, the wetsuit not being legal race was not a problem for me as well. Um, I did have that swim skin and you know, I loved. There were jellyfish, you know, I, I kind of sight there were some jellyfish, but, you know, it wasn't that bad. I didn't get hit or stung by any of them. You can see scuba divers down there filming from above, from underneath the water. That was kind of neat, seeing them. Yeah, it was crystal clear water. It was light blue the first hundred meters, but then very dark blue because the Mediterranean Sea gets very dark, very or very deep, very fast. But you could still see super far. But you couldn't see the bottom, but you could still see fish. You know, 30 yards down. I mean, you could still see fish. It was still beautiful. There was a huge pack of fish under me on the second half. It was kind of nerve wracking, but kind of cool at the same time. I'll end with this. As the sun came up and I was sighting back, especially that last 1,000 meters, you're far from the shore. The last thousand meters you're swimming back in. There's so much going on that I couldn't really see the arches or the buoys very well. There was still a lot of people around me sighting off of the French mountains. And I remember thinking, you know, hey, I'm going to sight off of the tip of that mountain, right? Because the arch I think is right under that. So I sighted off of a mountain, but inside my mind I was like, but I'm going to be biking off of that mountain later.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Jeff Raines: And it was just the coolest thing. I'm sighting off of that, but I'm going to be biking on it later. It was just really cool and things like that just kept me calm that whole swim. And for me, in a not wetsuit legal swim, I had a decent swim time and I was able to negative split. So I enjoyed this swim very much.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, that is, that is poetry, Jeff. That is triathlon poetry right there. Chris, Kennel Same, same age group as Jeff. Was the experience in the water mirror his.

Chris Kennel; It does. I was shaking my head the whole time. Jeff, I had similar experience. I wish we had Kurt's experience, but it was a first deep water start for me. So that was a, that was definitely a new experience with our group. Again, I'm, you know, a better swimmer than anything else, so, you know, to me, I was fine with the non wetsuit legal. I had pretty decent swim myself. It was definitely a washing machine of people. Most of that swim for me, being a little toward the front end of my age group, you know, you start to catch those others in the back half of that swim. The turns around the buoys were extremely crowded, so I actually swam outside of the line a little bit. You know, I knew it wasn't the best line, but it allows me, you know, to calm myself, you know, get into that rhythm of a swim. There's nothing worse for me than, you know, hitting feet and, you know, heads. And I'm not sure how the pros do that for the entire race. For me, being calm is the most important and it really wasn't choppy. I remember some of the days leading up it would be hit or miss on if the sea was choppy or not. But I don't remember it being too bad the day of the race. Then getting out onto the rocks, they had a carpet there. It was still pretty difficult to get up. Luckily, those volunteers pulled me up and didn't roll an ankle. But overall, good swim for me.

Andrew Harley: Now, the bike course was very different from the course in Kona, so just walk us through your experience out there on the bike. Kurt Madden, how was that ride in the mountains for you?

Kurt Madden: Yeah, I, you know, no hesitation. That bike ride was difficult. I, I look back on my preparation and I think I thought I had prepared really well and it was very humbling that I knew that I was going to come up a little bit short on this, but again, it was a baseline. So I was glad that I rode some of the tough sections with the Von Bergs, but starting not with the ascents, but the descents, they were crazy. You can imagine if you've watched that that Netflix series Tour de France Unchained. I kind of felt like I was like a cameraman going around these turns at 35 miles an hour. International crowd, people going on the right, people going on the left. I'm like, I've never ridden this course before. If someone crashes around this blind turn, I am flat out toast. You had speed bumps you had to go over, you had traffic circles. We were going through these alleys. I mean, bottles were flying off of bikes. It was pretty chaotic. But I know that when I started those, those three climbs from say mile 20 to 45, that right there took me like two and a half hours. Not three minutes, not 20 minutes, two and a half hours of climbing. That is really a gut check for any athlete. I mean, you've really mentally and physically. And I know I had gone through the first two climbs, but on the last one, as I looked up, it becomes very exposed. So there's not a lot of trees and it's not like you're at 12,000ft in elevation. But it felt in the moment like I kept looking up like, I think those guys are cyclists and I think they're in the exact same course that I am on. And I've got from point A to point B. And you just gotta grind it out. I mean, I was in a 32 on the back. And just like, be calm, keep your hydration in check. Continue to climb and continue to climb. It was so nice to get up there. At mile 50, I looked at my computer, I had already climbed 6200ft and I'm like, wait a minute, I can do the math in my head. I've only got like 1800ft left. I'm not even halfway. So it can really kind of demoralize you, but you've got to continue to do that. And then we got up on the kind of the, the plateau up there for a while and that was nice. And we had some really good sections. But then you start those super technical descents. I saw some crashes, I saw police officers kind of like doing like hands out with lights on. Like you're going through this tunnel really slow down. I looked over the right a couple times, but when I did that, I said, wait a minute. I think I'm like at about 3,000ft in elevation. And then at mile 80, for an added bonus, you're going down a five mile descent, you make a hard left hand turn, you get one more scoop of ice cream and it's called a climb. You climb another, another. You know, it seemed like it was about maybe 6 to 8 miles. But in the moment when you're climbing with athletes who've been on their bike for like six and a half hours, the conversation was like this, this is our last hill, all we have to do is finish, then we'll descend and then we run. And that is very comforting because you know what? Misery loves company. And I think that was really, really good. But again, when you're going down descents, you cannot drink. You've got to stay totally focused on every little detail, especially if you haven't ridden the course before. At one point I even had to pop my ears because it's kind of like being in an airplane. And then you come back down, I'm like oh wait a minute, there's just this buzz in my head, I've got to clear my head. So it was very, very nice to get back on the Promenade. I said okay, the surface is uniform, it's nice and flat. I've got five miles to go and there's a lot of people out there on the run. So it was good to kind of get through that section of the course or the event.

Andrew Harley: So Jeff Raines, you were sharing some really killer stories about this bike course on our staff call earlier this week. And so I just, I'm, I'm excited for people to hear about some of the moments that you had out there. Very different roads in Nice from where you train in Midland, Texas. Tell us how did that bike course go for you?

Jeff Raines: You know I, I loved it, you know it, I don't, I'm not here to scare people because any, anybody can do it. You just need to be a little bit more prepared, get out on the hills, you know, the technical aspects. But what I will say is that what was so awesome about that course and so different one is I was out there longer than I have been in any other IRONMAN. My training hours, time in the saddle, you know, I was doing one and two hour longer rides than I have ever done in my life. You know, I'm usually a five to five and a half hour, you know, IRONMAN bike split kind of a guy. You know, even for a couple of my rehearsals for IRONMAN California last year I dipped under five hours, right. But I went seven, I think 20ish out there in Nice. Now about that bike course, every minute of that course you had to be engaged, intentional in the moment, you know, some, some you know, five hour trainer rides or even half and full IRONMANs, you know, flatter ish courses, even like, you can just let your mind drift for two or three, four hours on the bike, right? Even on race day, you just. You just. It's flat. You just hurry up and wait.

Andrew Harley: You hold your watts and you're good to go.

Jeff Raines: Yeah, exactly. But this course, you had to be completely engaged in the moment. Everything had to be on point. Your nutrition, your cadence, your gearing, your heart rate, all those things. You had to have everything. You just ready. And you know that that descent was unique. It was different, it was new. And so you had to have your wits about you. Adrenaline rush galore. But, yeah, you're flying downhill now. I will say this. I passed a lot of people on the uphill, and. But hundreds and hundreds of people passed me that last hour or two on the descent on purpose. I wanted to ride safely. I wanted to ride the brakes. You know, I wanted to be safe. I got a wife and three kiddos, and I just, you know, I wanted to have a successful day. And again, I didn't care what my bike split was. But I will say, from the first hour on the bike, I was absolutely drenched, soaked with sweat. I never cramped. I never had an issue. I felt great the whole day. I stayed on top of my nutrition. It was just.

Andrew Harley: Well done, Jeff. Well done.

Jeff Raines: But, like, you had to stay on your watts. Everything had to be on point from mile one of the bike. So, you know, if you miss a gel here and there, you might be okay on a flat or whatever course, but, you know, if you're ready for it, you're engaged. Anyone can do it. So it's not to scare people, but, you know, it was a hard course on the descent. There were many times where, yeah, like Kurt said, like, there's a hard right coming up ahead. You know, people are probably going 40, 50 miles an hour. I was only going in the 30s at St. George. I remember I was going 42, 45 miles an hour on some of those downhills. But they were long, shooting straight, safe. Yeah, for us, they were left. Right. But also, unfortunately, the. The descent section was a majority a headwind, and so you couldn't go super, super fast because the whole wobble effect. But there were some left and rights where. Yeah, I didn't know. It was around that corner and the iconic tunnel that everyone saw you go through the cave on that bike course. You went through four of those, actually. But there was that one main iconic one. You know, I was like, where's that? When is it? I know it's coming up. I want to enjoy it. But there was an ambulance inside of that and three guys laying on the ground. Unfortunately, you know, they had some blood on them, some ripped kits. One guy was on a backboard, but that's a narrow little tunnel turn. And there were cops saying, you know, slow down, slow down way ahead of time. And so I'm riding my brakes. So you whip around that corner and boom, there's an ambulance and people laying down. So there was a tiny, tiny little gap for us to get through that little cave section and come out on the other end. But guess what? Like, you don't have time to process that. You just have to react, be safe, get through it. Because guess what? Right around the next corner is another turn where you got to have that mindset again. And so by the time you do that 40 times on the descent on a seven and a half hour bike ride, you know, it's hard to process. It's just a lot of engagement, a lot of adrenaline. So that's what was different for me. It was a little bit scary at points, but I felt okay the whole time. So I don't want people racing this in the future, the next three years to think, well, I'm not going to sign up because that's too hard. I can't do that. I purposely went an hour slower on the bike than probably what I could have done. Don't let it scare you.

Andrew Harley: Holy cow.

Jeff Raines: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I'm going fast on this turn. But. But it wasn't just a freak out, it was a fun scared. So don't let it worry you, please.

Andrew Harley: Chris, tell us about your experience out there on that bike course going up those uphills and down those downhills.

Chris Kennel: A little bit of recap when I, you know, ran into Kurt at the airport leaving Nice, and, you know, he said if he had one thing to, you know, to suggest for people, you know, maybe the women doing this course next year is get out of that trainer, go outside, you know, that Wahoo Kickr, although it's a great platform, is not, it's not like being out there on, you know, those climbs, those technical descents you're just it, you know, it's not a substitute for it, you know. And secondly, to, to Jeff's point, you know, you do all those climbs and it just, it mentally wears on you. And so to try to be sharp that last, you know, it sounds fun, right? You're just going to be up on your handlebars. You'd just be flowing down, enjoying the ride. But you know, to his point, you've got to be mentally sharp. And that's very tough in an IRONMAN. And that last, you know, 20, 30 miles. So, you know, like Raines, I've got three young boys, you know, I took it, tried to take it in, take it safe, you know, I know some people unfortunately were medevaced out of there, so it was the real deal. But yeah, like Kurt mentioned, there's this three punchy climbs out of town. I think some were up to 10%, you know, and then, you know, another two and a half, three hours of constant climbing. Just be very conservative. In the beginning, I actually passed Kurt maybe toward the first half of that race. And you know, we're watching these guys standing up and he looks over to me and goes, the amount of matches they're burning right now is just insane.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Chris Kennel: So I tried to take that little words of wisdom with me the whole way. But the big story is, and tell me if you've heard this one before, Andrew. I think I already talked to Raines about it. I think it was about mile 30, my rear bottle cage snapped.

Andrew Harley: Nice. Yeah, great.

Chris Kennel: It had been cracked. On my travels to, to Coeur d'Alene, I, you know, I had the sixth sense that I need to order a new one. So I did. And when it arrived, it was the wrong one and I did not have enough time to get a new one. So I was like, well, it's been fine up until now. Well, come mile 30 or so on the bike ride, it came to bite me.

Andrew Harley: The real question was that your nutrition in there? Was that hydration in there?

Chris Kennel: Hydration. That was the precision hydration. The tablets rear bottle cage snaps, gets wedged between my rear frame and my rear tire blows the tire.

Andrew Harley: Wow.

Chris Kennel: So now not only have I lost my hydration on the warm course like Raines was talking about, but I also have a flat. So I had enough to change one. I got going again. You know, I figured, well, I'll just adapt. I'll grab some Gatorade when I can, whatever needs be, get rolling again to the, you know, the right after, you know, where you pick up your needs bags and realize I have a front flat now. So here I am in the middle of the Alps, in the middle of France, mile 50, whatever, just a boy.

Andrew Harley: From Georgia with two flat tires in the Alps.

Chris Kennel: You know, in my ignorance, it's a bad country zone. My ignorance is that everyone there is going to be able to speak English and help me. So no one spoke any English. I'm trying to point to my tire and explain what I need. Well, the kind volunteer goes and grabs my bag and I'm like, no, no, not my bag, my tire, my tire. Well, luckily I had a little bit of CO2 left, so I get it to a point where I think it's holding, get going a few more minutes, and then it flats again. So now I'm in the middle of nowhere with nothing to change it. So, you know, the motos are going by, you know, I'm trying to flag them down. My face would have looked so defeated at that point. You know, going all the way out there, everything that's gone into it, you know, you try to run with the punches, but at some point it starts to creep in. I may not finish this thing.

Andrew Harley: I mean, that's everybody's biggest fear. Like the, for me at least, the further you travel for a race and the more, you know, emotional investment, time investment, monetary investment you have in a race, like, that's, that's when you want nothing to go wrong, like, right and that. So naturally that's when it does go very wrong for you. How did that end up getting solved?

Chris Kennel: Well, I do have to mention said you said that I was at special needs with the flat and there was an American who had just came out of the Porta Potty. He sees me with the flat and he says, wow, a flat at Worlds. That's my worst nightmare. And I could not.

Jeff Raines: Thanks.

Chris Kennel: I'm living it, buddy. Like, Anyway, so after about an hour of waiting, a moto does finally come. They get me fixed up. And at that point I am smiling ear to ear because I got another shot at this thing.

Andrew Harley: So, yeah, that's great.

Chris Kennel: Resilience was the word of the day for me, actually. Just finishing it felt the. One of the best I've ever felt. No, I didn't make my time, but I just, I felt so good that I had made it through that, you know, and I had finished and I had, you know, made it through that. You know, nothing went perfectly and I was still able to finish that.

Andrew Harley: So, yeah, I mean, kudos to your attitude on that and I hope people listening really take that in. Because I mean, here you are in probably the biggest race of your life to date, and to have something that major go that wrong and still be able to, to keep a positive attitude to, to view that as a, a second chance at finishing this thing instead of just being woe is me about what could have been. Right? So, so just good on you for, for just getting back at it and enjoying the day and making the most of it. Let's move our convo on to the run. I, I feel like we could talk about this bike course all day long with as, as epic as it is, but this was a 4, 4 lap run course. It was 8 lengths up and down the same stretch of Oceanside Promenade. How did it go out for you guys? You know, what did you think of that run in Nice. Jeff Raines, you're a running guy. What'd you think out there? How'd it go?

Jeff Raines: The entire marathon was a three mile piece of road. Like that's kind of like, you think of it that way, you're like, wow, like it's a three mile stretch or you just go out and back, you know, six, six and a half miles, you do it four times. It was different. Right? And I liked that the aid stations were actually kind of cool because they were in the middle so you could access them on both sides going out or coming back. So, so there, there was great. You know, because of that course, there were a lot of good aid stations. There were a lot of little water arches you can run under. I had every bit of my nutrition on the bike, every bit of my nutrition on the run. I had four extra gels in my bento box on the bike. I took three of those four. I had three extra salt pills on the bike. I did take all three of them. And then on the run I had every piece of my nutrition. I did a 2:30 run and a 30 second walk from the first step of the course and I followed that after 15 miles. It was amazing. I loved it. I felt good. I wanted to keep my heart rate under 150 and it was hot, it was humid and I followed my nutrition. I did the run walk and a 30 second walk, guys. You know, by two and a half minutes in the first mile, my heart rate was already over 150 and I was like, oh no, it's gonna be a long run. Uh oh. But guess what? By about two to two and a half minutes, my heart rate started creeping above 150. So I walked for 30 seconds. Thirty seconds is not a lot of walking. It was speed walking, but every single time I did that, it brought my heart rate down five to eight beats. Oh, look, it's 144. Let's go again. Two and a half minutes. Let's go. And it was awesome through mile 15, but I got very nauseous. I think it was just a million gels. It was extra than I'm used to. And that's when Kurt passed me that 15 to 20. And I like Kurt. I wanted to negative split the run. I was super patient the first half. When he passed me, he put on a few minutes. But it was funny because it was also mile 19 point something. It was right before the start of lap four, I was like, what am I doing? Like, let's freaking go. Let's go catch Kurt and have a good time. Let's run together. Let's finish together. Like, you know, let's do this thing. So I took off. My fastest lap was the fourth lap of all of them. If you look at the tracker app, it's like, oh, Raines kind of sped up a little bit. I'll end with this. I did speed up a little bit, but I sped up way more than the tracker app said. But I had an oh moment. And oh, and oh, no. At the U turn, it was dark at this point, and I took my sunglasses off and put them on my head for lap four. This is on me. It's my fault. I ran past the U turn like an idiot out there at the airport. I was 0.3 miles, and I was like, what am I doing? I had to turn around, go 0.3 miles back to get back on course. Kurt, I almost caught him. He was at the U turn. He was right there. I was gonna catch him in a minute or two. He didn't see me, actually. I was gonna catch him back, but I, like an idiot, kept going. And I ran 26.8 miles on the day. I. I rallied. I felt good. I did negative split. The tracker app showed me picking it up a little bit, but I made an oops. And I almost cried, man. Like, I'm not a crier, but, like, when you're at that deep into the race, you're at 24 miles, and you're. And you're turning around, and you're like.

Andrew Harley: What have I done?

Jeff Raines: I'm off course. What have I done? I'm actually feeling good. This is the best part of the marathon for me. I'm rallying back, and then that happens. But like Chris on the bike, I was like, look, there's nothing I can do. I'm fine. Let's just keep going. I got back on course and then had a great finish, a great day. I actually liked the run course. I really did.

Andrew Harley: Everybody go find Jeff Raines' Strava file for that run and just, just give it a little chuckle as you. As you see him go off course there for a minute. Chris, what was that run like for you?

Chris Kennel: Similar experience on the run, you know, exposed, hot, repetitive. That's one of, like. I thought it was a cool perspective. You said it's only a 5K marathon. You know, know, just the piece of stretch we're running on. You can see it's so flat. I mean, when you start, you know, Jeff, when you start, you can see the airport. You could pretty much see where that turnaround point where you're going to. Yeah, that was all mental for me. And because it was so flat, a couple. Couple pointers I learned, actually, out in Coeur d'Alene. I cramped out there. Just the variance of cadence, you know, to me, like, just not using that same muscle. Repetitive or repetitive? Repetitive. Kind of really, really helped me out there. I didn't, you know, I didn't cramp out here. Nutrition was important. The salt was important. Like you mentioned, Jeff, I walked the aid stations as well. If I had to go to the bathroom, I went to the bathroom. You know, I just kind of took it all in. And mentally, that. That helped me get through that course. Finding the people to talk to, to cheer to. Jeff, I know me and you kind of exchanged high fives and fist bumps and pats on the back along the way. That. That always helps. I found a. A friend from Australia. We talked a full. He was one lap ahead of me, but we talked a full lap. I tried to convince him to do a fifth lap with me, but he didn't. He didn't bite.

Andrew Harley: Wonder why.

Chris Kennel: Yeah, Local support was amazing. It got a little, you know, where you kept going, Jeff, you know, it got a little sketchy, A little. There wasn't many people out there, you know, got a little. A little. A little gray. But as you came back towards, you know, each lap, it would always re-energize me. You go through that, you know, the Red Bull arch, and you go past the finish line. You know, my wife always asked me, is that defeating to keep, like, seeing the finish line three times before you get through it? For me, no, it would re-energize me every lap. So I actually enjoyed that course. You know, local support was amazing. So it was all good. I mean, if you start to get in a bad mindset, just remember, like, it's going to change in five minutes. I think you guys have said that on this. You said that on the podcast before. But you know, where you're at mentally, five minutes later could be the exact opposite. Or it could be nutrition. Just take a nutrition and you'll pop right out of it.

Andrew Harley: Yeah.

Chris Kennel: Um, you know, and always remember your whys toward the end. You know, why, why will always put it in perspective of why you're there. So, all in all, I had a pretty decent run. I honestly, I think it was one of my faster ones. Maybe that hour rest up in the Alps helped my legs, so who knows where I would have been.

Jeff Raines: Chris said, hey, when things are going rough, just stay the course, stay on your nutrition. Because in five minutes, you never know. You know, you could rally back, things could change. Right? Your mindset and all that. I. My miles 15 through 19 point something, you know, I was in a dark place. That's when you saw me, Chris. Well, we saw each other a lot, but that's when Kurt passed me and all those things. I just had a little bit of nausea and I was on my nutrition at that point and I had, I knew carbonation helps a little bit of the nausea. I had four Pepto Bismol serving little chewables in my belt. I took those in when Kurt passed me. He's like, look, do you have what you need? I was like, yeah, I got some Pepto. He's like, take it, let's go, you'll be fine. And he took off. Well, guess what? I took three of those four Pepto Bismols in that four and a half, five mile stretch. I was like, carbonation I know can help settle. I had so much Red Bull, guys, I probably in the whole race, I don't know why I was craving it. I like that. The caffeine. I don't know. I probably had, you know, 15 cups of that Red Bull, I don't know. But anyways, I had a Red Bull, I had my Pepto Bismol. I stayed on my nutrition and I rallied back. I felt great. And like Chris said, you hit that U turn. And I was like, oh, no, there's the lap four finish. One more lap to go. You go around that VinFast car. That's when I felt good. The energy of the crowd, my Pepto Bismol, all that stuff was kicking in. My stomach was fine and I rallied back. And so, you know, stay the course, keep a good mindset. Do not get one gel behind because, you know, you don't know what will happen in five minutes. And I rallied back and I had a great, a great last five miles. It was the fastest of the day.

Chris Kennel: And it didn't, didn't hurt that when I passed the Red Bull, they were playing Dancing Queen one time. And, you know, nothing will get you pumped.

Jeff Raines: I heard that song too.

Chris Kennel: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Harley: Only in the context of full distance triathlon does chasing a Red Bull with Pepto Bismol make sense. Right? We hear that and it's like, yeah, that's normal. That's normal on course, only in our context does that ever make sense. And Kurt, tell us about that, that run for you.

Kurt Madden: The one issue that I had a problem with on the first lap, I think they had a couple cups of ice, but by lap 2, 3 and 4, there was no ice at all. That's my go to. That's the one. That's my love language. That's my very best friend. But I'm like, you know, you've just got to suck it up. You know, you've got to adapt. You've got to pivot. You've got to get more water on your body. And then it was this loop thing. And then I saw another TriDotter. You know, I saw Chris out there, I saw Jeff out there, and I saw another athlete and he's like, Jeff Raines is like a half a mile ahead of you. And I'm like, okay. But I know Jeff. Jeff's a damn good runner. For me, actually, it's hard to even say this, that I actually felt the best at mile 19. And lo and behold, it was just so nice to finish and just come up and being on the carpet, I mean, IRONMAN just does a great job. When I come through and I'm like, really humbled. It's like, don't say all that stuff. Just say, Kurt Madden, you're an IRONMAN. So, yeah, I was over the top to finish 12th and almost negative split that marathon, but it gave me a really, really good perspective on how to race better there next time.

Andrew Harley: Let, let's, let's shut down the main set with this today. For the women who are racing Nice in 2024, the men are going back to Kona next year. The women will be in Nice. And we're hearing buzz. I don't know if the official word is out yet, but we're hearing buzz that Nice will be hosting world championships again in 2025 and 2026. So we're hearing that it's going to be there for another three years. So the men will go back again, the women will go twice. For our athletes listening, who might be wondering that maybe they want to try to qualify, maybe they have qualified and they're wondering, Kona versus Nice, Should I do it? Is it worth it? In 30 seconds or less, what are your words of advice, wisdom, whatever you want to call it? For other athletes thinking about doing Nice, what would you say to them today? Chris, I'll start with you.

Chris Kennel: 100%. Do it. Don't, like Raines already said, don't. Don't fear the turns. Don't fear that bike ride. You know, own it. You can make it. Also, regardless of how you feel about the change in location for the IRONMAN World Championships, just go and enjoy everything that area has to offer. Got to be one of the most beautiful places in the world. But just get out there, practice some hills, and definitely, 100% go.

Andrew Harley: Jeff Raines.

Jeff Raines; Don't just say, oh, man, like, I don't want to do that course. It's too hard. I got to wait four years. No, change your mindset. Try to qualify for the World Championship in Nice, France. You got three more years. Try to try to qualify. If you get it, you need to go. It was the most amazing experience. Don't have a negative mindset because of the course and it might be too hard or I can't do the bike. No, like, you can do it. You can do it. Just like Chris said, if it's a little bit of prep, if you qualify, look, work with a coach, do your best in your budget. Find a camp, Find something that you can do to help the descending skills. Right? A little bit of extra time in the saddle. You don't just need to go. Add five hours to the longest ride you've ever done. Right? You can do it. You can do it. Right? You just need to be a little bit prepared and have that mindset. You're gonna be fine. Put a few extra gears on your bike, right? And work with that coach. Put a few extra rides in. You can do it, and you're gonna do it. So do not let it intimidate you. You got four years, three more years, get out there, try to qualify. And if you do, you need to go.

Chris Kennel: Yeah. Use the community, even TriDot. I mean, if you guys want to reach out to me, I have no problems with that.

Andrew Harley: And most importantly, if you do qualify for Nice, and you're going to ask Jeff Raines where to get the best lasagna in town.

Announcer: Great set, everyone. Let's Cool Down.

Vanessa Ronksley: Welcome to the Cool Down friends. I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. Today for our coach Cool Down tip. I have a very special guest who I am delighted to talk to because it's my very own rock star coach, Ryan Tibble. A few words that I would use to describe him are humble, patient, encouraging, kind. He's also very funny and I have to tell you that my favorite thing about Ryan is that he's always there when you need him, even if you don't know that you need him. Ryan is on staff with TriDot and holds the role of business coach and he is also a founding master coach. He has been coaching for over 10 years and has been a triathlete for more than 22 years. He has tons of racing experience from 70.3s including Worlds to Fulls, and has completed over 50 half marathons. Ryan's coaching specialty is beginners all the way through to Kona qualifiers. He is very experienced with swimming and running technique and he is a CrossFit coach. Ryan lives in Fort Worth with his beautiful wife and two pups, Zoe and Mila. Welcome to the Cool Down, Ryan.

Ryan Tibball: Thank you, Vanessa. Hopefully this will be a great tip for everyone as we transition a little bit.

Vanessa Ronksley: Okay. Well, I'm excited to get to it, but first we have to know one of the things that most people don't know about you and it happens to be that you despise books. Now, this is absolutely shocking to me. Like, how is this even possible that you can despise books? But I really would like to know, when was the last time that you read a book and what was it?

Ryan Tibball: Boy, that's my secret. But all right, thanks for sharing. It's probably been a solid year or so or two. And that last book was called and Don't Judge Me on this, The Supple Leopard.

Vanessa Ronksley: Oh, no. Okay, you have to explain this. Yeah, you better explain.

Ryan Tibball: So the. The Supple Leopard is actually a book written by Dr. Kelly Starrett. He's a doctorate of physical therapy. And I was actually introduced to Kelly Starrett through CrossFit. I actually do carry a CrossFit mobility certification through that, which again, is led by Dr. Kelly Starrett. And so his book goes into really high detail about mobility work and flexibility, stretching, etc. And so of course, it is a book that I'd be into it. It's not fictional. It's not made up stories. It is like, legitimately I can. It's applicable to what I do as a coach and I, I find it has been a very valuable tool, not only for myself, but more importantly for my athletes and, and, and athletes all around is being able to take what I've learned from that book and, and apply it out there in the world. And, and it's been so. It's a wonderful book. So I guess ultimately, can you really say I despise books? I don't know, but at least I have read some books.

Vanessa Ronksley: All right, so what tip do you have for us today, Ryan?

Ryan Tibball: Well, as we are all starting to, at least in the States, is transition towards indoor training potentially. There is obviously a big draw towards, you know, riding on, on your smart trainers etc and having your bike mounted there. And, and one thing that I have noticed with a lot of athletes is they actually start to set their nutrition bottles or water bottles on a table next to their bike. Let me ask a question. So I have to ask this question. How many of y'all have a table next to you as you're racing? When you're racing it's like you don't have that luxury of a table next to you with your bottle sitting conveniently there. You got five, six bottles stacked for your four or five hour ride? No, but what you should be doing is still loading your cages. You should still be practicing this. This is a, essentially what has become is muscle memory.

Vanessa Ronksley: Right?

Ryan Tibball: You are learning. If you've got rear mounted bottle system, you've got a bottle underneath your, in your frame or you even have one up in between your aero bars, it's still an opportunity. When you're riding indoors, it's still an opportunity to practice and, and create again, continue to create that muscle memory. So when you're out actually at a race that you have no problem just blindly reaching back and doing it because you've been doing it all along indoors. Now, yes, it is a controlled environment indoors, yes, you're stationary and you're not going to fall over, et cetera. But at least you've started the process of continuing that muscle memory to grab bottles from where they're located at and teaching your, your brain, your body how to do that and you understand your system.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, I think that is super important because I recently got the rear bottle cages put on my bike. And so the first time that I had actually attempted it was on one of my long rides and knowing how like the angle at which to put that bottle back, that takes a lot of practice. And so I would actually appreciate being able to practice that without, you know, falling over on your bike on the road. So I, I definitely will be hooking my, hooking my bike up to the trainer and, and making sure that I'm not using the table that's sitting in front of me. So thank you.

Ryan Tibball: I can say, you know, the table is not 100% off limits. You know, we've got, most of us have three bikes a week, right? And you know what, if there's a day you're like, I'm, I'm flexible. You know what, you don't have to put your bottles in your bike, but you can put them on the table next to you. You know, watch the good movie while you're riding your indoors. That way you just don't take your eyes off that screen. Right? Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, but again, take advantage of that opportunity of riding when riding indoors. Put them in your cages. Get used to it, you know, because when it comes to race day, it's going to be so much smoother.

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