TriDot Podcase .215

Run Wisdom from Marathon Champion Meb Keflezighi

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Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot podcast. Pure running is a different endeavor from triathlon where we run off the bike, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t valuable lessons we can learn from the running community particularly when a world famous marathon champion decides he wants to come on our show and talk to us and that is exactly what we have with us today in our first guest. Meb Keflezighi is a runner, best selling author and co-founder of 26, a brand celebrating and enriching the enduring spirit of running culture. He was the first person and only male to win the Boston Marathon, the New York City Marathon, and an Olympic marathon medal. Today, Meb is committed to helping runners become elite versions of themselves and nurturing the sport of running for the next generation. Meb is now coaching runners with RunDot, the sister ap of TriDot, and Meb we’re thrilled to have you on the TriDot podcast to teach us triathletes a thing or two about running. Welcome to the show.

Meb Keflezighi: Thank you for having on the show. I’m so thrilled to be part of the TriDot podcast. You know, I’ve always been a fan of triathlon because I can’t do those things that you guys do, but one thing–

Andrew: I think you probably could. I think you could.

Meb: I want to try sometimes, but I could do one and do it really well, the marathon and I’m here just excited to be able to discuss some tips.

Andrew: Well, I’ve got to see if I can rope Meb onto a relay team for a triathlon and we’ll let you do the run obviously. Also with us today for this chat is TriDot founder and CEO, Jeff Booher. Jeff is the chief architect behind TriDot’s insight optimization technology that powers TriDot training. He’s a multiple time Ironman finisher who has coached dozens of professional triathletes and national champions as well as hundreds of age groupers to podiums and PR’s since he began coaching triathlon in 2003. Jeff, you’re actually on back-to-back episodes. You were with us last week to talk with Scott from Fuelin. So welcome back just so closely in a row to talk with me and Meb.

Jeff Booher: Thank you. I think this frequency is a first. Usually you can only take me in small doses every once in a while. So this is great. Meb is one of my sports heroes. Someone I’ve respected and admired for a very long, long time. Not just on the race course accomplishments, but his character and integrity too. So this is a true privilege.

Andrew: Well I am Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our main set conversation of running today, and then wind things down with Vanessa taking over for the cool down to get a coach cool down tip from one of our TriDot coaches. Lots of good stuff, let's get to it!

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: In every sport there is something extra special about a championship event. As a spectator you get the biggest stage for that sport, the best teams and the best athletes. The tickets for those events are usually extra in demand and Jeff, Meb, I’m wondering today for our warm up question, if you could be in the audience for any sport championship event, what would you most want to spectate? And Meb, I know you’ve raced and I’m sure you’ve spectated on all the biggest run events in the world, but I’m curious, what is this answer for you?

Meb: You know, being a sport fan it’s always a very, very difficult question, but I love spectating soccer…

Andrew: Futbol.

Meb: …Futbol. You know that’s what– My nickname was Pele at one point when I was in Italy.

Andrew: Wow! Okay.

Meb: So I was a big soccer fan and that’s how, before I started running that was my main favorite athletic. My dad always took us to the park so we could play soccer recreationally once we made it to Italy. But growing up in the United States, I am a big fan of the NBA and love seeing those tall guys and there’s some really phenomenal athletes to be able to do the things they do. So I do have a lot of respect for marathoners or some different discipline like triathlon also because they do it well. They can hop, jump, dunk, but when it comes to the stamina, I’ve got them a little bit.

Andrew: Did you have a favorite team, Meb?

Meb: I’m a Spurs fan. The San Antonio Spurs. Dave Robinson when he first got. He was a man of class and of integrity and just a very fine guy and then obviously the belated Kobe fan. I know Kobe was a great guy and I got to meet him a few times. Growing up in Italy I randomly ran into him at the Santa Monica pier.

Andrew: Oh wow.

Meb: You know, third street promenade and I said– The first commercial they had with Adidas at the time was in Italy and so I’m like, “I’ve got to say hi to him. How do I get to him to say hi?” Then I started speaking to him in Italian and he was like, “How do you know Italian?” Then the rest I got access to him and it was great.

Andrew: Captured his attention. Yeah, that’s a great story. Yeah, that’s great. Two champions just chatting on the pier. Jeff Booher, what is this answer for you? What championship event would you most want to spectate in person?

Jeff: Well, I’m like Meb. Being a sports fan there’s so many. I was tempted to say the Rangers. They’re in the World Series now.

Andrew: They sure are.

Jeff: I got to see the Rangers in the first one in 2010; took my family and kids to that, but I think the one that I guess I’ll stick with is track and field. The relay either the 4x100 or the 4x400. It’s just so exciting. My dad took me. He passed about 20 years ago, but about 10 years before that he took me to the GoodWill Games in Houston and Meb’s reacting right here. I remember Carl Lewis was anchor leg for the south team and it was just so– I couldn’t believe that many people got that silent for something.

Andrew: Wow.

Jeff: It was just crazy electric and I remember it. So there’s like the connection with my dad, that event, Carl Lewis and it was just phenomenal. So I just love country against country. So that event, 4x100 or 4x4 in the Olympics would be like the epic championship event for me to spectate.

Meb: You know, track and field is always exciting to be able to do the relay and 4x4 or even partake of the mile relay where you have four laps, three laps, two laps, and a 400 meter; something for everybody. Having a team is always good, you know, participating in a team relay at UCLA was a lot of fun for me. I always do the mile. So people don’t know that I’ve done a mile before and there was a guy named Kevin Salva from the University of Michigan, from Canada originally, but running for University of Michigan. To try to out kick him there was no way so you just had to go bat out of hell and just go hard and hold on. But I know– obviously I didn’t win that race, but to be able to be a miler it’s always a wonderful thing that you can relate and to be able to be part of that community and a relay is awesome. But sprints, to be part, I was a part of that GoodWill Games in ‘99. My first US team, Long Island was a lot of fun and to be able to see those guys and gals sprint and make sure that baton gets in your hand is a pretty exciting time.

Andrew: Meb, what was your fastest mile in your career? What was your best one mile time?

Meb: So I ran 4:02. I was really running out trying to break 4 minutes. But I ran 4:05 in high school winning the national titles and the 3200 meters or 3000 also in high school. But at UCLA I was 4:02 trying to run at the Twilight Race at Oregon and it was raining. I was hoping to do that. I tried a couple times to break four minutes, but in high school Ron Tabb my good friend tried to help me break with the Brazillians. At that time there was not a lot of training groups, but the Brazillians were training in San Diego. I ran 4:05 and then 4:02 in college.

Andrew: So close.

Meb: 3:42 for the 1500 meter which converts under four, but not officially so it still hurts.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that’s– You’re a wee bit faster than Jeff and I so you have our respects that’s for sure. This answer for me, I’m a big Miami Dolphin fan and it’s funny. Right now, actually is the first time the Miami Dolphins have actually been good like in my entire adult life. My answer here would be I would love to go to the Super Bowl if it’s the Miami Dolphins. If it’s not the Miami Dolphins, I don’t really care about being at the Super Bowl in person. I’d rather be at home in the comfort of my own home. So otherwise I would say a World Cup Final. I think Meb, you would agree, the World Cup is obviously a premier sporting event and to be at a final regardless of who it is and where it’s being played would be really, really special.

Meb: Absolutely. The World Cup is awesome. I do regret not going to South Africa for that one, but you know in 2026, it is going to be in the United States so that’s kind of exciting and where it’s going to be, not sure yet, but I know between the Canada, US, and Mexico is the plan. But yeah, that would be a thrill of a lifetime to be able to be at a World Cup.

Andrew: Yep. Dallas is short listed as a city that might get a game. So if that’s the case I will definitely being doing everything I can to get a ticket to whatever game ends up in Dallas. Hey guys, we’re going to throw this question out to you, the TriDot podcast audience. Make sure that you are a part of the I AM TriDot Facebook group. We have thousands of triathletes talking swim, bike, and run every single day of the week and every Monday when the new show comes out I throw this question to you. So go find the post of me asking the group if you could go to any final in a sporting event, what event would you want to go to? Can’t wait to see what you have to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Andrew: Excited to talk about running today with marathon Meb Keflezighi and Jeff Booher. We’ll find out what triathletes can learn from pure runners about running. We’ll hear some great stories from Meb’s storied career. But before we get to that, Meb, the most current chapter of your career is nurturing the next generation of runners which I absolutely love that you care about that and are doing that. When did you first recognize in yourself the desire to continue your running journey through coaching other athletes?

Meb: You know Andrew and Jeff, I was so thrilled to have this interest early in my career. In high school I remember coaching a guy named Jeff Stoic from a football player who wanted to run the 800. That was the first time that I ever–

Andrew: That’s cool.

Meb: And to be able to write a workout for him. He was trying to work 2:02 in the 800. That’s the first time and then in 2000 after personal college and turned professional I was a community college coach at San Diego City College a coach for cross country. I was excited to be part of that and in fact I came early from my first Olympic team to be a coach, but then I decided coaching is always going to be there for me, but I wanted to get the best out of myself at this point of my career. You know, it can’t be a half job. You can be a coach, you can be an athlete and something’s going to give up. So I decided, you know, I’m going to postpone my run coaching. People had been asking about it, but with RunDot it’s just the right time and I’m so grateful for Jeff and team for giving me the opportunity. Because RunDot has great skills, a lot of data, and like 100K of athletes, 300 million training sessions and Facebook groups of close to 20,000. So they’ve done a lot of the hard work for me and to be able to just have this enthusiasm now to help others accomplish their own goals because I accomplished mine. But how do I energize the next generation or the next person who wants to maximize that tallent. I know TriDot has been very popular, but now we’re trying to make the RunDot a little bit more of a stepping stone toward that. So it’s a takeoff from that, but it’s just wonderful to have this opportunity to share the skills that I have learned from many years as an Olympian or as a marathoner in the New York or Boston Marathons. How that helped us not to be winners, but in their own ways. Not to come across the finish line, but how do they achieve theirs whether it’s a 5K, 10K, half marathon, or full marathon. Because running is something that boosts everybody up and the community is just such a wonderful community to be a part of.

Andrew: Yeah and I know for our TriDot audience, a lot of triathletes become triathletes having been runners first right, and they just kind of start flirting with cycling and they start dabbling with swimming and all of a sudden they’re doing a triathlon and they don’t know what happened. A lot of triathletes end up running marathons in the off season, half marathons in the off season, 5K’s, 10K’s and so we Meb are just thrilled to have you in the family. I think it’s going to be fun to watch the RunDot and TriDot rivalry grow just between the two brands and between the coaches on just how much they’re doing for their athletes. But the official announcement went out a little ways back, I think a few months ago now we announced that you are coaching runners through RunDot. As a legend in the run space, I mean, you could have gone a lot of different ways with how you wanted to coach your athletes. What attracted you to RunDot?

Meb: I was attracted to RunDot because of the people behind it. You know, it’s been awesome to be able to follow them a little bit. You know, I have been running for 30 years or more and there’s been those that have come and gone so with a proven fact with the technology that Jeff invented the patent for it…

Andrew: Yep.

Meb: …is just pretty incredible. Because, you know, technology meets experience for me. That’s what I want. The technology is always for me was with Coach Larsen we would put a rock or a stick to measure how far 400 meters or–

Andrew: Very high tech.

Meb: Yeah, you know, to be able to do that when we were out in Mammoth and we’re not on a track. Not everybody has access to the track. So when we go to Mammoth or Bishop that’s where Coach Larsen would go on his bike and find a couple rocks and put a couple layers, you know, one on top of the other or a stick and by the time I go by that I look at my watch. Okay that was 800, I’m doing mile repeats. Okay, did I go too fast? Did I not go too fast?

Andrew: Yeah.

Meb: But with technology you can be able to just see it and that’s what RunDot brings; the technology that has proven facts that helps less injuries, but more results. So I felt very excited and hopefully can be a contributor to that with my experience that I have had since 1990 which is that I participated in shorter events, the mile, the 5K, the 10K, cross country, and marathon and I feel like I have this versatile athlete in me that I can hopefully help others achieve their own goals. Because, I mean, not everybody is going to run the marathon, but we are here to help you and RunDot is there to support you in every way they can.

Andrew: Yeah and we’ve just seen such an impact on our triathlon community with just the gift that Mark Allen and Michellie Jones and Mirinda Carfrae and Kathleen McCartney, so many previous champions in our sport are coaching through TriDot. And having their wisdom, having their– just hearing their stories and learning from their race experiences has just been such a gift for our triathlete community. So I know we are thrilled for our running community to get to learn from you and hear from you and hear your stories. Jeff, I just want to hear from you. Now that we’ve announced Meb as coaching with RunDot, he’s gotten athletes on board, he’s starting to work with athletes. What has the response been from our running community just having Meb as part of it all?

Jeff: It’s pretty amazing. I was getting texts when the releases went out like, “Are you serious!?” “I can’t believe this!” “Oh my gosh!” So just that great response and a lot of shock just like the home run. I know many years ago, and we talked about this before. We knew RunDot was coming many years ago and we could have launched it anytime within probably the last three to four years and so we were waiting for the time and I know even back when we were planning a decade ago just knowing when the day comes it would be so cool if we had the opportunity to work with Meb. And I told him that when we first started talking about this and then just the timing was right and we reached out. I know he had a relationship through Matt Bach on our team and worked with UCAN and so they had that history. They knew each other well. I was more an admirer from far. I had never– I met you once. I don’t know if you remember. It was another lifetime, ten years ago.

Andrew: I’m just going to say he does. He absolutely does. Yeah.

Jeff: Yeah, definitely does. One of us remembered it very, very well. But anyway. So it was just really cool to see our long-term planning and the work and the patience, but that was still able to line up and the opportunity– timing was right for him where he was saying “Okay, I’m saying yes to coaching.” And the timing was right for us and it happened probably, you know, both of those realizations within a couple months of each other. So it was just super neat from the first conversation we had.

Andrew: Yeah, we had a podcast episode go out with the launch of RunDot just to tell our triathlon community here just about that new platform. I know, I personally, I had so many people that I know that are not triathletes, they never want to become triathletes. Usually they don’t want to do the swim part, right? They’re just not open to hopping in the water and wearing spandex and all that jazz, but I have a lot of runner friends that for years know who I worked for, knew what TriDot was, and they would express, “Hey, when RunDot– if you guys ever do something for runners, let me know.” And I’ve had so many run friends take a look at the app, get on the app, start training with the app and report back just some great things. So Jeff, I know our TriDot audience here listening, you know we have some runners, we have some triathletes, we had that podcast episode go out just kind of announcing RunDot and talking about what it was, but for our RunDot athletes who are already on the platform and for our triathletes listening who have runner friends, what can they expect to see from the RunDot brand and in the marketplace as we head into the coming years?

Jeff: A lot of advancements. It’s really cool to be able to leverage the technology, everything we’re doing in the triathlon space, virtually, we benefit from that in the running space and vice versa. So it’s a common intelligence engine behind the scenes and so we’re able to get more data, more athletes which is super cool from a data perspective. There’s a lot of new things that I probably can’t speak to yet, but they’re on the road map, and in the works. A lot of really cool things. I think one of the things is– and where we could actually use help– is in the athlete education piece. There are so many things that our triathletes, we have such a huge community there, they’re able to encourage each other and say “Hey, trust the process.” and share different things that are counterintuitive, things that are theoretically based from 30 years ago are just not true. I think there’s a Mark Twain quote that’s “The problem is not what you don’t know, it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” So there’s a lot of old mindsets just based on what people have done for 30 years that need to break through and we have– For example, there’s some athletes that come on and say “Oh this isn’t enough volume. I need to do something. This is for beginners.” And some of these different things– the power stamina paradox, the how you run zone 2s based on heart rate versus pace and why you do that, and just some educational things when they don’t yet have the experience. So some of it’s new and it feels scary to some people, but we are now getting to that two, three, four month point where we’re having enough athletes out there- so this is the help. Those athletes that are out there are sharing in a Facebook group and other places the results. We had a guy that was running, was a really good runner. He was running about 120 miles a week and kept getting injured. You know, imagine that. So he switched over, started using TriDot just injury free substantially less, like less than half the volume and he ran a 2:32 marathon. So that’s pretty awesome. And at every level…

Andrew: That is not bad.

Jeff: …beginners– Yeah.

Andrew: Not too bad.

Jeff: At all levels being able to do that, to be able to stay injury free, keep doing the things that they love and not being injured. Being able to have a sustainable– It’s like get more awarding, more reward on race day, you’re PR’ing, you’re doing better than you thought you could and that’s very satisfying, gratifying, and then it costs you less. So you don’t have to train as much. You train as much as you have time for, but you don’t have that pressure feeling of it’s cutting into my family, it’s cutting into my career, my other activities and then just the confidence of being able to keep doing it for longer and not worry as much about the injuries. So that’s just comes with experience. More people actually experiencing it. Like Meb mentioned, it’s the evidence based, it’s results based. When so many people are saying “Well, here’s the results I got.” You can argue with theory and what you’ve heard and what you’ve read for 20 years, but here’s what the data says and here’s what I say from my personal experience. So that’s what I’m looking forward to; that encouragement athlete to athlete. When we say something like that they go, “Oh yeah, well you founded it.” or “you work there.” or something, but when the data says it, when other athletes say it then that’s what I’m excited about.

Andrew: Yeah, it has been really really cool now that RunDot has been in the marketplace for long enough for athletes to start seeing the results of the training and there are people in the Facebook group, like you said, who are reporting back I just PR’d this, I just PR’d that, I just ran this race and I felt fresher going into race day than I ever have before and yes, people are starting to share those results that we knew would come because we’ve seen it with TriDot athletes year after year after year. Meb, for you, RunDot athletes now have the opportunity to work with Meb and you are starting the Meb Run Club and with TriDot and RunDot we always say, the best most ideal situation for the athlete is the optimized training of the platform of our technology paired with the personal touch of a coach. And that is what runners will have when they join the Meb Run Club for their training. So Meb, what is the vision of Meb Run Club and what do you hope runners will get out of working with you?

Meb: I’m so honored to have RunDot because the technology that it provides, the data it provides– data optimized training. So that means better results and fewer injuries which is helpful and the personal touch now becomes how do you get them motivated? How do you get them that experience that I have from previous races? What to do. What not to do. I always tell people, advise them, write down three things that went right and write down three things that didn’t go right. So that way you can say when you go into the next race, how did you improve those? And those are the things that by jotting down notes that helps and for me, visualization is important. So to be a part of the Meb Run Club is to say “Hey, I’m thinking of going a marathon whether it’s New York or the Boston Marathon. What do I need to do?” Since I’ve been there and I tell them– they can read it, but at the same time, you need to change– to get ready for the Boston Marathon you need to change your downhill run at the beginning.

Andrew: You know those streets.

Meb: I know those streets. Especially Boston. It’s point to point. Even the different cities have different kinds of turns and what not. So visualization, goal setting. You could always cross out a goal then say it’s unattainable. This is where the experience comes. Even for me when I was running, I didn’t say go win a gold medal for our country. That was make the Olympic team, make the final. Once you make the final, now you can say how do I work my way to get a medal. And the same thing goes for the average runners to be able to just say, “Hey I want to qualify or I want to earn that.” and to stay healthy and be strong at the beginning and that’s where that optimized training comes from that. Then eventually with experience, don’t panic when you’re tapering, don’t panic now. It’s okay because it’s supposed to go that way. Just you’ve got to save yourself for the race then when the gun goes off then you can unleash and be patient going to the races and don’t blow it. You worked so hard to get here…

Andrew: Yeah.

Meb: …don’t blow it the first 15 or 18 miles because it’s 26.2 miles.

Andrew: It’s a long way. Yeah, it’s a long, long way. Meb, I’m curious. This is kind of putting you on the spot because this is not in our notes for today’s show. But I love the notion of at the end of a race write down three things that went right and three things that went wrong because there will be three things on both sides as long as these races are. Whether it’s an Ironman triathlon or a marathon on the run. So I’m curious for you, we’re going to test your memory here. Can you remember from one of your races what one of the main– kind of give us an example of a race and what were three of the things that went wrong for you that you were able to correct in a future race because you wrote it down after having done the first race.

Meb: Absolutely. I mean, people know me as a marathoner, but I did the New York City Marathon when I was 27 years old in 2002 and coach told me be patient, don’t go hard, and guess what? You feel great. You have adrenaline going and you’re feeling the crowd insane cheering you on and that patience just went out the door. I remember I just made a move and I’m like, “I can win this thing. This looks easy.” And felt comfortable. It got down to four people and then I was like, worst in here I’ve got fourth, you think it’s guaranteed, but there’s no guarantee in a marathon unless you discipline yourself. So I remember writing– I finished the race anyways. I finished ninth which is great. I ran 2:12:35, but I missed it by 35 seconds to get a standard for the Olympics. So it was devastating in many ways and I just said, “You know what?” I went and wrote down be patient, make sure your long run is properly done, and don’t throw– I threw my beanie, my gloves, and my arm warmers off as a rookie. Keep them on because the weather can change especially when the wind shifts and things like that. So if they have gloves or beanie, tuck them in your shorts so when you feel cold you can put them on versus throwing them away. So those are the things that experience can only teach you versus– You know, coach got me ready to go to the race, but also to have to be disciplined enough to know when to make the move or when not to make the move because, as you know, a marathon is a long way and a little mistake– Coach Larsen always says “You’ve just got to beat one third of the field.” The reason being, one third is dealing with over training, one third they psyche themselves out. Now, can you be the person that doesn’t make a mistake and then beat that one third and if you do that, you most likely are going to finish on the podium. So you have to make those decisions, make them count, and be the one that makes the least mistakes because we humans, we make mistakes, but don’t make the mistakes at the wrong time because if you do that it’s going to be, a normal marathon becomes an ultra marathon.

Andrew: Ultra marathon, ultra more difficult than it should have been. Yeah, we’re already catching glimpses of the wisdom that our Meb-coached athletes will receive from the athletes in the Meb Run Club. Now Meb, I want to talk about the nickname Marathon Meb because that is your nickname. Everybody knows you as Marathon Meb; the marathon was kind of a focal point of your career, but that nickname to me just as a fan of your work, that overlooks what to me is a very well rounded professional career. I mean you competed very competitively in a variety of distances. You have accomplishments in the 5K, the 10K and even the Cross Country World Championships. But it’s clear that you love the marathon more than anything else. For our athletes listening, just to you in your own words, what makes the marathon distance just so special?

Meb: The marathon is a wonderful event when it clicks and it’s not such a wonderful event when it doesn’t click. So it goes as a metaphor for life. You know, you go through ups and downs and challenging circumstances, but the marathon is a beautiful thing when it clicks. I remember just, I know for me, the experience in 2004 I had the opportunity to represent our country in the 10K, 6.2 miles, or a marathon. It’s in Athens, Greece where the origin…

Andrew: Yep.

Meb: …of the marathon.

Andrew: So cool.

Meb: The origin of the Olympics and you know, it was a tough decision. The 10K is done like the first three or four days. The marathon is climax of the event in the last day of the Olympic games to the closing ceremony. So that’s why I chose to do the marathon because I always became a student of the sport and particularly of the marathon so that’s why Marathon Meb came because I didn’t love every marathon. I hated my first one. I never wanted to do another one.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: It was such a painful– but even the second one I was undertrained and Chicago I didn’t go for the win, I went for time, but that made me realize if you can be patient, if you can do the proper training, great things can await. Then by my fourth marathon I became a silver medalist by winning the first medal for the Olympics since 1976, Frank Shorter. So I decided, you know what, this might be my thing and then started to transition toward that. But like you said, I was doing the 10K, marathon, 10K, marathon and it was in 2009 when I made the switch to full-time marathoning and then once I did that with my speed for the 5K, 10K, and cross country experience and now shifted to the marathon, it paid big dividends by winning the New York City Marathon and that was my dream. That was my first marathon.

Andrew: No that’s cool. Yeah.

Meb: I wanted to go for a push and you know, you don’t always get what you think you deserve or you think you’re going to get, but it always happens. I’m a believer it always happens in God’s time.

Andrew: Yes sir.

Meb: And that time to just be able to win the New York City Marathon after winning a silver medal. I wanted to go to Beijing and defend my silver medal, but I didn’t make the Olympic trial team. I think I was eighth so that time I watched it, but I remember telling my wife that definitely Samuel Wanjiru would not have been beaten, but silver and bronze were possible. So when you say those things you’re visualizing yourself. You’re making a commitment to yourself. I can prove people wrong. So when it came to the New York City Marathon, wearing that red, white, and blue and chanting USA, USA coming to Central Park against a silver medalist and against a four time Boston Marathon champion I was ready to go and to be able to pull that victory. That was my gold medal that I never had.

Andrew: For our athletes listening who they’ve raced 5K’s, they’ve raced 10K’s, they’ve raced half marathons, what are kind of your coach tips for folks who haven’t run a full to kind of transition to that longer distance from racing shorter distance?

Meb: You need to join RunDot and maybe the Meb Run Club.

Andrew: The Meb Run Club!

Meb: Yeah, do that. But you know, people often ask me “What’s your favorite event?” It’s whichever I’m fit for. So you set a goal to say…

Andrew: Hmm, yeah.

Meb: …hey, I want to finish a 5K or I want to do a half marathon or I want to do a marathon. Then once you do that, you have your commitment, it’s easier to work with it versus somebody who says hey, you go around the street and they’re walking or is at the shopping center and say hey do you want to go run a marathon. They’re going to say “Are you crazy?”

Andrew: Absolutely not.

Meb: But when you have somebody dedicated and committed to, half of the battle is that. Now how do we work through that to set you in a program to help you achieve one step at a time to the half marathon and then to the marathon. How do you do that? By working hard, being consistent, and listen to the advices because the advices are going to be very helpful especially as newbies, people want to get excited. I’m getting faster. I’m getting in shape. Yes, but let’s wait for you to be able to get to the finish line the last two or three weeks. Don’t get too excited because you haven’t put in a lot of miles yet to be able to endure that, the pace or the longevity. But if you be careful with it, strategize it, amazing things can happen. So my preferred marathon is– I think I always tell people they should do– you’ve done it in your Ironman, but you should do one marathon in your lifetime.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: Because of the dedication, the commitment, the perseverance, the hard work that it entails to come to that will help you overcome anything in life after that. So by being patient and diligent and consistency will help you get to the finish line. Where that finish line is your personal goal. I just talked to somebody from Vermont, a lady that wants to do after so many times in the marathoning now she wants to get back to it. Age is a number, but at the same time how do we modify to be able to get that person to be the best version of themself and that’s why I am so excited to join RunDot. To be able to help people accomplish things. But be cognizant of who you are, what you want to accomplish, but by setting goals you will achieve them because you dedicate yourself to it.

Andrew: So Meb, we could fill an entire podcast episode just hearing your personal race stories and we’ll certainly hear some from you whenever you do come on our podcast. You, in fact, have so many great race stories that you filled a book with your race stories and I actually read your book, 26 Marathons, the week it came out Meb. The week it came out I think I had a flight to somewhere that week and I bought it on my Kindle, read it on the plane. Really, really enjoyed and for our readers in the audience, Meb just tells more or less the story of his career just marathon by marathon. You know, how it went, what you learned, the life lessons from it, what was going on. It’s a memoir told through his 26 professional marathons which to me is a really clever story telling device. But it brings out so many training and racing nuggets as well as just your personal story. So for anybody who wants a full picture of Meb’s career, go buy the book, go read the book, but Meb, just for today as hard as it may be from your 26 marathons; winning Boston, winning New York City, being an Olympic medalist, and so many more. From your race career, what is just your singular one favorite story from the races to tell?

Meb: It goes along the line that you said, what’s the best distance for you? There’s so many wonderful achievements. If it’s a 5K you want to be fit for, you be fit for a 5K. If you want to be fit for a marathon, you be fit for a marathon. But to answer your question, there’s been so many things from me winning the state tidal the first time it’s like, “Oh my gosh! I did! I can’t believe it!”

Andrew: Oh wow. So true.

Meb: You know, or NCA titles, but to be very fortunate to be able to say I won a silver medal for our country, I won New York for our country, I won Boston. The Boston is the one that stands the most.

Andrew: Okay.

Meb: The reason being the year after the bombing and it was a greater cause than myself because I wrote the victim’s name on my bib to draw inspiration. The Boston Strong slogan. I said “I’m going to go out there.” My goal was top three, PR or win it and you know, I was two weeks shy of my 39th birthday. According to experts I had less than 1% chance of winning the race.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: I was the 18th or 19th fastest guy in the field, but nobody can test what’s in your heart or your desire, your will and like I said I’m a believer so God had a plan for me and at five miles into the race– The last thing I told my coach was “Don’t worry, you’re not going to see me in the front until the last 5K.” Guess what? Five miles into the race I was in the lead and took off and because the emotion of the crowd takes you. Sometimes you’ve got to listen to the instincts of your spirit there and I made that move just that point went with me and I’m like, “What are they doing? They’re making a mistake. Did I go out too hard?” But I’m like, you know what, I just prayed. I said, “God, give me the force, give me the spirit and the energy of the crowd and the spirit of the victims” and what a greater time that was. You know, you hear the being in the zone. I don’t remember going to the halfway point even though at Wesley College there’s a lot of females, there’s a lot of rowdiness going on, but I don’t remember going through that because I was so focused in the moment and I remember just saying. At 16 miles I said, “I’m going to go for it.” I was hurting. I was in pain, but just keep persevering, keep persevering and I had a smartwatch and that helped me kind of like my pace set in a way just like I’m going the same pace. I’m not abnormal, but I just tried to make it as hard as possible for those people and if they’re going to pass me, they’re going to have to earn it. Then with one mile to go, got down to six seconds from a minute and 15 seconds and got closer and closer. I was getting nervous, but to be in Boston the year after the bombing, to have the victim’s name and 36,000 people came to do something better than themselves, a greater cause, I was just fortunate to lead them and chanting USA, USA. Count that the reel of a lifetime.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: It was always been my dream. The only thing that was missing in my resume was the Boston win and to be able to do that on April 21st, 2014, a dream come true. So being a triathlete, you know they say “You are an Ironman” and I remember when they said “Your 2014 Boston Marathon champion.” It hit me and I just went to tears because that’s what you dream for. That’s what you visualize for and reality and dream met that moment and I just felt thrilled and grateful to God for giving me those opportunities and getting me there because the 36,000 people of us wanted to do something back. Just the sense to race, not race, but help heal the city in a positive way.

Andrew: No, just chills hearing you recount that and I know it’s the same for Jeff as we’re just sitting here. But I think for me personally, Meb, as a fan of the sport I always watch the major marathons on TV. My wife still to this day does not understand why watching marathons and Ironman on TV is interesting to me, but it is, right? We sit down and we watch the whole– we’re glued to it because you don’t know when the moves are going to happen. You don’t know when the critical points of the event are going to come and the three just chill-inducing moments that left a mark on me as a fan was your win in Boston, Des Linden’s win in Boston, and then Salane Flanagan’s win in New York City were just all three, just top tier experiences as an American marathon fan. So very cool to hear you recount that personal story.

Meb: No it’s just, you know, our goal was to help revolutionize the US distance run.

Andrew: Okay.

Meb: I wrote that letter, you know, even Nike is not my sponsor anymore, but at one point in 1998 I said help me help the resurgence of distance runners to have that vision and to be able to overcome those and to have Des win and Shalane win it’s like– if they can do it, they went through the collegiate system, we can do it. So there was a hope there and I felt blessed to be able to be a part of that transcender to help them revitalize the US distance runner.

Andrew: Yeah, so I do before we sign off today, I want to ask a couple questions for our triathletes in the audience to get to learn some running wisdom from you. So the first question I want to ask here is just about race day itself. Because I think for runners and triathletes there are lessons you only learn from race day. You can do race simulations. You can do your long workouts. You can kind of try to prep your body for what it’s going to feel like when you’re out there, but there is nothing quite like the way you go out there and push yourself on race day particularly the longer that race day will be. So in your career, from marathon one to marathon two to marathon 26, what did you do from race to race to examine how it went and make adjustments in your execution for the next time?

Meb: Being healthy is important. Sometimes you’re not going to be– sometimes you’re not going to taper because you’re playing catch up and you’re only going to taper if everything is going perfectly, you’re going to taper the last three weeks. But if you’re playing catch up, you’re just going to taper the last week, the last three, four days. So those are important to know where you are in your training. You know, get to the start line healthy, but I always tell people you’d rather be 90 or 93% healthy than 101%. Because when you’re at 100% you went over the hill. You just, you might not finish or you over peaked. I think it’s important to realize what you are capable of doing. Don’t go according to what others think. Stick to your program. When you have done the work for yourself, just the beauty of marathons is you can slow down if you need to slow down or you can pick it up because– a coach can get you ready, but you have to be the decision maker there whether you want to be top 10 or you just want a personal best or you negative split a race. We can get you there, but once we get you there it’s 90% mental now.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: 10% is physical. On the professional end it’s opposite; 90% physical, 10% mental. You’ve got to grind. You’ve got to grind.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s so true.

Meb: But then it switches and get up on time, eat what you’re supposed to eat, wear the right shoe, the right gear and then execute a good plan. My advice to people now is make your last mile the fastest if you can help it. You cannot sometimes, we’re at the lead, sometimes we have to react to others as competitors, but if you can just pace yourself and make the last 5K or 10K gradual progress and hammer the last mile and you’re going to have great finish and you’re going to have a smoother recovery as well.

Andrew: So when us mortal runners watch elite runners run, there’s just this effortless glide to the run form and you certainly have that. It just makes faster paces look effortless, right? I see footage on social media of Kipchoge and you from your prime. There’s just this glide to the run form of these elite marathoners and for our age group triathletes listening, what tips do you have for crafting a smoother, more effortless looking stride?

Meb: You know, I think form and mechanics are important. They need to be practiced daily or at least two or three times a week just to be able to just rehearse. My job as a professional athlete was to make it look it easy.

Andrew: Okay.

Meb: But it’s never easy. The reason is one, to intimidate my competitors. Even though you’re hurting, but you’ve got to think “How’s my form? I’ve got to look good for this.” Because if they’re breathing hard, if their mechanics are broken down and they see you smooth, they’re like, “This guy is unbelievable.” So you’ve got them mentally. But also the audience, the people cheering for you, you want to be able to just say, “Wow! Look at that guy. He’s looking good and strong.” It is positive for you. I look at my shadow sometimes when I’m racing just to see how my form is because if my hands are not moving, my mechanics high knee lift is not happening then obviously I need to improve that. Take a conscious decision to say “shake your hands” and reset and it’s important to do that. But we do make it look easy whether that’s Kipchoge or others, but it’s never easy. But sometimes I tell my competitors, I even breath harder to just kind of psyche them out a little bit.

Andrew: No, that’s fascinating.

Meb: He’s like, “Oh, he’s hurting.” They make a move and then eventually later on you make the move because you want them to be the first initiators of the move and then hopefully you can take over after two minutes or three minutes.

Andrew: I have never found myself in a position in a race to where I have had the priveledge of doing that. But if I ever do, I’m going to keep that tip in my back pocket.

Meb: You don’t have to be in the lead because that’s the beauty of racing. Racing is whether you want to beat age groupers or you want…

Andrew: Yeah that’s true.

Meb: …to go for your PR. There’s a lot amongst of you, especially marathons. You know, you can go three miles, four miles, five miles together. So I mean, you want to be the smoothest runner in that group and be able to just– sometimes you have to push the pace, but be cognizant of what’s around you. You could be running a personal best is huge, whether you are in the front of the pack or the middle of the pack or the back of the pack. So you want to be able to do that.

Andrew: Yeah. So many, especially in triathlon events, everybody has already swam, they’ve already biked. Most athletes have usually overdone it on those legs of the race and so when somebody is on the run course and their run form still looks good, they stand out and it’s like oh my gosh and you’ll hear people like audibly like, “Hey man you look great! Keep going!” Because it’s just such an anomaly to see a triathlete on the run course holding good form and looking like they’re still fresh because we’ve done all this work that came before it.

Meb: It’s mind blowing how you guys make it look easy too. So I have to give you guys respect for that.

Andrew: Thank you Meb. Thank you.

Meb: You know, after doing all that swimming and biking. I just do sometimes cross train on a bike or elliptical and my legs are already shaky so I don’t know how you guys do all those three things.

Andrew: Well, I’m going to pull both of you into this question so Jeff I want you to be thinking of an answer as well because you certainly have some wisdom to offer here. All of our athletes listening whether they’re a RunDot runner or a TriDot triathlete, you know, we can all pull up our run workout, we can head outside, we can follow the intervals, grab our recovery smoothie afterwards and call it a day, but I know talking with TriDot coaches and RunDot coaches there are so many more nuances inside of that workout that we can be thinking about, focusing on to get the most out of the session. There’s going out and just doing the workout then there’s going out and doing the workout with some extra intention. So Meb, Jeff for both of you, for our athletes listening, what focus points do you encourage athletes to be thinking about, to be focusing on within their run workouts out there interval to interval. Meb, we’ll start with you and then well let Jeff tack on second.

Meb: Yeah, I mean when you’re doing a workout you need to be interactive. You know, you want to be able to do before, during and after and what’s the intention of those things. Okay, I’m doing my warm up to get ready and now you’re visualizing what my interval is going to look like. I want to run if we’re doing 800, mile, or whatever it might be. It might be all swimming or intervals on the bike. Okay, I’m just warming up, visualizing so I can replicate that at the interval so hopefully have good results for the race. And then I guess when you do that, replenishing is important. By doing a cool down, doing a cool down right away, and then how do you replenish. You just grid yourself with intense workout, how do you recover? Cool down, have something really into your system. I usually personally have a UCAN shake that I usually use. Stretch. I will do that first and then stretch and then ice bath and then the strengthening or massage once a week or whatever. So you can be ready for the next workout, next week, next. Because momentum is important. You don’t want to be– Staying healthy is important at any level so you want to be able to just visualize the workout, the intention of it, and then the recovery because they all go hand in hand.

Jeff: Two things. As more, like you said, just to the mechanics of the workout, one is how important the warm up is to just be disciplined, do that. It’s so worth it to warm up to get things moving, to get your range of motion.

Andrew: Do your run drills people. Do your run drills. Don’t skip the run drills.

Jeff: Yeah. Second– I just do three. Second is restraint on any intervals and not trying to overreach on the first ones. Just being consistent through all of them and making your last intervals as good or better than your first ones. So many people go too hard on the first ones and not hard enough on the last ones and they defeat the whole purpose of the workout. The money intervals are the last ones. That’s where your big gains are going to be. Everything else is preparatory for the last two or three intervals depending on their length. Then the third, last one I’ll say is the rest between intervals. Make sure it’s not too short, not too long, it’s what’s prescribed and often there’s an intensity in there. You need to keep walking, keep jogging. That’s very important to stay in the energy system that you need to. Not to recover too much so you stay in the state needed to move into the next interval. So being disciplined with those three things is huge. We see that in some of the cycling workouts and others, some are easier to workout or to analyze because it’s a consistent environment, but you can see as much as 30% more increase improvement from sessions when the athlete stays in the right rest between. They’re jogging versus walking or stopping and letting their body cool too much. So when they stay jogging, stay moving for a minute or 30 seconds or whatever it is, it makes a huge difference.

Andrew: I’ll give a very tangible example there Jeff. When I think I had been a TriDot athlete for something like a year when I finally just happened to actually read the session notes for the interval workouts where for me typically the interval workout I’ll have four minutes at zone 5 and then four minutes at zone 2 and I’ll have four or five sets of that just depending on where I’m at in my larger training cycle. I like doing that one at the track. My zone 5 is 5:45, 5:50 minute miles so I can get spinning pretty good on a track there and I had done that workout for something like a year and I would jog at zone 2 for the recoveries and I just so happened one day to notice in the session notes on TriDot it was telling me to do the recovery, do those 4 minutes in between the more intense efforts, at a walk. It’s still zone 2. So, that feels weird that my average pace isn’t going to be as high on Strava, but let me try this. I felt so much better and I was able to hold that zone 5 pace through all five intervals so much better doing the recovery the way TriDot actually told me to. So read your session notes and know that the way all those intervals are designed is for a reason.

My next question for you Meb, we’ve got two questions left here today and then we’re going to wrap it up. It’s been a great main set hearing from Meb and Jeff. When it comes to the run split on race day, pacing is important, fueling is important, fitness and motivation are important. Much has been said over the years on our podcast about all of these items. But Meb, with a runner of your caliber on the show, what are the more intricate race execution items that elite runners pay attention to that your average triathlete probably doesn’t?

Meb: You know, I think getting to the starting line as healthy as possible is important, but having done the visualization. Now you’ve been visualizing for so many weeks or months, now the reality is, how do you tactically conquer this course or this race? And for the sessions every 5K as an elite athlete, did you practice those? Now, nothing has changed, but the course can be a little bit different. But have you visualized and prepared for that? Who are your competitors? I usually like to do a study guide.

Andrew: A little scouting there.

Meb: Yeah, a little scouting. Who is there? Did they do a tune-up race? How did it go? You know, some people might not show their cards so they might not do a tune-up race, but–

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: What’s their strength and what’s their weakness? Are they people that sit and kick or are are those the ones that are going to grind from the golden mile? In a marathon from 20 all the way to the finish line. So having done those, it’s important to study competitors and for me it’s getting ready that day. You know, sometimes I always say run to win. It doesn’t mean necessarily I’m going to get first place, but I give it the best out of yourself. If somebody outsmarted or out worked you, they deserve to win. But you’ve got to work hard. You’ve got to be able to be smart and be the one that makes the least mistakes and hopefully you will come out on top and if you don’t, you just congratulate that person that did. But in the back of your head that’s one of three things that I mentioned earlier. It’s like, you got me today, but I’m coming next time on you.

Andrew: To shut down this conversation today I want to hear from– I know you both just have such a heart to see the sport of running explode and you want to see people fit and healthy and enjoying outdoor endurance sports. We know running is just a very popular way to stay fit, but as more and more runners find RunDot and start doing the training, get plugged into our community, what role do both of you hope that RunDot plays in the future of run training? We’ll go to Jeff first on this one and then we’ll shut down with Meb.

Jeff: We want to bring the technology. This is going to help people get better results in less time with fewer injuries and I think there’s so many people that have dabbled in the sport, done a little bit of a try running, but when you can get out there and give them something that’s easy to follow that reduces the stress of what do I do? How much? Am I overtrained, undertrained? And where they can get that satisfaction and get those better results better than they thought they could, or better than they thought they could on the amount of time they had to train or better from any of those. I know, we always say fast is fun, but faster is funner.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jeff: So to be able to just get more satisfaction and exceed your goals and it’s really cool to have that lifestyle and then the injury side is huge. Seeing so many people, they may not have endurance goals or competitive goals, but they want to reduce stress. We do those surveys with our athletes. Why do you run? What do you look for in all these things? And so many want to reduce stress. They want to maintain body weight. They want either a look or a physique, feel a feeling of healthy. Sometimes they just want community. So being able to offer all of those things and keep them injury free so they can keep doing those things. The worst thing in the world even when you’re not competitive, if you get injured, you can’t do the thing that you need to.

Andrew: Yeah, so true.

Jeff: The more times you get injured, the longer you’re out and the less likely it is that you’re going to come back. So Meb, throughout this whole thing, he’s consistency, consistency, consistency and that’s huge. A lot of people as they get older every year they come back from a little time off of running, they’re a little heavier, a little greyer, a little older, and they’re more likely to get injured. So it’s just super important that if we can fill that role using technology to help people get more out of whatever they love about running, then that’s a success to me.

Andrew: Meb, what role do you hope that RunDot and the Meb Run Club plays in the future of run training?

Meb: With RunDot, that optimized training is important. When you have 30 million training sessions, that speaks volumes to be able to say, what worked and what hasn’t worked? So to be able to have better results with less injury, why do you need to go somewhere else? I mean the whole point is to get to the starting line healthy. I mean I wish RunDot was around in my career in 2007, you know the trials, because I over did it because I was just so excited to have my first win at the Olympic Trials and I didn’t even make the Olympic Team.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: Because I overdid it. So now you have the technology that says “Do this kind of exercises.” They have exercises that you can follow, drills that you can follow, to strengthen the muscles and ligaments. In fact, that’s where the injury prevention comes and you have this technology that says, “Okay, this is who I am.” Individually. You. Age. Gender. All those kinds of things that will give you the information which is very important to say specifically you. So RunDot can be used with coaching, without a coach. It’s better with a coach I think because now you can get the experience they say, “Hey–” When you say, “Oh, I don’t know if I’m ready.” The coach is there to say, “You know what? We’ve done the work.” It shows this is what you have done with the technology, now just be human. Be able to relax. That should get you to the finish line as strong as possible. Confidence is what the coach is for. But even with all these training sessions that RunDot has, or TriDot has, it’s important to know what am I capable of doing? Now you have to be able to just execute a good plan. So more importantly now, if we can prevent injuries, you have technology that can guide you, that means more of the coaches can have one on one time with those people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Meb: Not create a workout because you have the technology to do that. Now you can say, hey, I want to be able to just chit chat a little bit about the course which is there for you, but now you can say, “How are you feeling?” versus “What should I go train or what are the temperatures going to be.” All this is in the RunDot just now the interaction becomes more personal. So reality with technology which is the best of both worlds.

Andrew: For our triathletes who are interested in either joining Team Meb during the marathon part of their season or for just telling their running friends about team Meb, where can they go find more information about the team and working with you on their running?

Meb: Yeah, we have a newsletter and we have it up on social media Run Meb, but more importantly MarathonMeb.com. We’ll have it there now, just click away to join the Meb Run Club. I’m so excited. It’s a new adventure for me, but I couldn’t be happier with RunDot and Jeff and team. Thank you for giving me the opportunity and the timing is right. There’s more– post COVID there’s so many people running. I’m a critic by nature. You know, I see people running and I give free advice sometimes when I’m running.

Andrew: Hey, let me help you.

Meb: You know, to be able to just do the arm carriage or your mechanics because they’re stomping, you know. I’m not for the business to get theirs, but I’m just telling them– The hardest part is getting out the door. Now how do you make yourself better and RunDot is there to help you do that and hopefully with the Meb Run Club we would be able to help others, a community that will stay together and help them to get the best out of themselves.

Andrew: Jeff, can you imagine being just on a training run and you just happen to go by Meb hanging out at the park and he shouts at you like, “Land softer! Pump your arms more!” Like can you imagine.

Jeff: That would be epic.

Meb: You know, I run with people that just you don’t even have to give– I just say follow me for the next 20 seconds.

Andrew: Wow.

Meb: Their whole mechanics changes then because they’re conscious of it. They’re like, “Oh, I’ve got to go with him.” It shifts where as before they were right here taking the same pace and the shoulders uptight. But now it’s like, “Oh, I’ve got to keep up with him.” We’re not going faster, we’re just changing mechanics which is kind of fun sometimes.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: Hi friends! I’m Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm and joining us today for the Coach Cooldown Tip is Brock Walaska. Plain and simple, he is a legend. Brock is a commander in the United States Navy serving on active duty as a supply officer. He is also the type of guy who for his 40th birthday dreamt of riding around the island of Sicily which summed to over 633 miles or 1000 kilometers and just under 30,000 feet or 9,000 meters of elevation and it only took him four days. That’s amazing. It is apparent that Brock likes cycling in any form because he has ridden 313 miles on a triathlon bike in 24 hours and completed a 400 mile ride on Zwift in 24 hours. That’s just mind blowing to be honest. And Brock does normal things too like he completed the Boston Marathon, sat on the age-group podium at Clash Daytona, and represented USA in the ITU long distance world championship in 2018. On the coaching side of things he is an Ironman U certified coach, TriDot and RunDot coach, Pool School Instructor, a certified personal trainer and sports nutrition coach as well. He coaches athletes from beginner all the way through to competitive age groupers across all distances. Brock currently lives in Florida with his wife of 21 years, two teenage boys and two Goldendoodles. Welcome to the show Brock.

Brock Walaska: Thank you Vanessa. Excited to be here.

Vanessa: Okay, so something most people don’t know about you is that you have run one or more miles in 37 different countries. So give me your top highlight from one of these runs.

Brock: Gosh, that’s a hard choice. I mean I love to travel. My family loves to travel and between our personal adventures and military requirements yeah, I’ve been fortunate to visit over three dozen countries and I always make a point of running a mile or more. Sometimes it’s much more, like a planned trip to the authentic Athens Marathon, but oftentimes it would be just a quick visit. You know, 24 to 36 hours in a particular country and I believe there’s no better way to explore a new place than to get out and go for a run. Probably the most memorable of those quick trips was Lithuania. My ancestors migrated from there and at the advice of a tour guide, I ran along the Baltic Way Monument early one morning before any of the tourists or really many of the locals were even out and that monument plays a significant part in the history of Lithuania. It was just an awesome time to think and reflect. I had the whole place to myself. As a kid I remember hearing family stories about my heritage and it never crossed my mind that one day I’d actually be there in Lithuania one day running at the Baltic Way Monument. So, just a very surreal experience.

Vanessa: Yeah, that sounds incredible. Thank you for sharing that. That’s really, really cool that you’ve paired your love of running with a lot of your family history and on a short trip nonetheless. So that’s amazing. I love that very much.

Brock: Thank you.

Vanessa: So what tip do you have to share with us today?

Brock: Alright, my tip for today is focus on what you can control. A problem I see with many triathletes is that they focus on things over which they have no control over. They worry about their competitors, the race results, or the weather. I mean if you join any of the Facebook groups dedicated to a specific race, it’s inevitable that someone or multiple people will be posting weather forecasts like two weeks out from race day and they’ll be worried about the heat, the humidity, the water temperature, the wind, the chance of rain, or any indication that it might not be a perfect race day. Sure it’s important to know the weather so you have your proper kit and nutrition planned out, but do not obsess over it. This focus serves no value because you can’t do anything about them and it can actually have a negative impact on your performance. Many of us type A athletes don’t like that feeling of being out of control. It creates anxiety, frustration, it hurts our confidence because you’re helpless to do anything about the weather or the course conditions or other competitors and your results. Once the race begins it’s very important to stay focused on the process and not the outcome. Athletes who focus on outcome are worried about things like winning, losing, setting a PR, whether or not they’ll qualify for nationals or worlds. And sure those are important for many athletes, but that’s not what you focus on in the middle of a race because you can’t control those outcomes. Instead focus on the process. Focus on specific aspects within your control that are necessary for you to perform at your very best such as your attitude, maintaining good form on the swim, managing your pace, fueling and hydration, sticking to your RaceX plan. Stay focused on those to do your very best and then the outcomes you’ve been training for will follow.

Vanessa: Yeah, I think that all those things are something that we all need to be reminded of very regularly. You know, like something that I almost need to write on my hand. Like focus on…

Brock: Absolutely.

Vanessa: …what you can control because if you start focusing on things that are out of your control it becomes like this obsession, right? Like your mind just gets going down this track and you’re going off course. And I notice even during training sessions when I’m in the middle of like a swim set or something and my mind starts to wander, so does my pace you know?

Brock: Yep.

Vanessa: It’s like as soon as your mind goes, you’re not fully focused on what you’re doing and what’s happening in the present and your performance is not as good as it could be. That’s for sure. So how do you– Is there any tip that you have in terms of how to make sure that you stay on track or how you keep that focus for in the moment? What do you think about that?

Brock: Yeah, so there’s something called the 3 P’s of focus that help you stay in the right mindset during your race, during your training. I mean you can go so far as to write the letter P on the inside of your forearm to remind you. You know, when life’s getting hard out there or you’re starting to think off track. So the first P stands for positive. Focus on the positive things that will help your performance and avoid negative thoughts that will hurt it. The second P is process. As I mentioned earlier, focus on specific aspects within your control that are necessary to perform at your best such as your form, nutrition, following that RaceX plan, and not on how your competitors are doing or that the weather isn’t cooperating. The last P stands for present. You need to be present in that moment. Focus on what you can do right now to perform as well as you can in the moment that you are in. Thinking about a slow swim as you’re on the bike or thinking about a bike mechanical that you had to overcome while you’re out there on the run course won’t help you. You can’t change that now. There will be plenty of time after the race to look back and reflect with your coach on what went well or what did not go well, but during the race you need to stay present to do your very best. So stay positive, focus on the process, and be present.

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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