Safety, Speed, & Style: Choosing a Bike Helmet for Triathlon

TriDot Podcast Episode 315

Safety, Speed, & Style: Choosing a Bike Helmet for Triathlon

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Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot podcast. Today we are talking all about bike helmets. When you ride, it is essential to protect your head. And there are a number of things to know about getting your helmet selection right. Here to help us do that is Mike Bunting. He is the sports marketing manager for Rudy Project North America. So his firsthand knowledge of the bike helmet industry will steer us all in the right direction. I'm Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack. We treat the show like any good workout. We'll start with our warmup question, settle in to our main set conversation where we'll learn about bike helmets and then wind things down by having Mike answer a question from our audience on the cooldown. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it. This is the TriDot podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world class coaching with every conversation.

Announcer: Let's get started with today's warmup.

Andrew: All right, Mike, welcome to the show. And you and I have been on site at a lot of the same events. You representing Rudy Project and racing and me representing TriDot while I'm racing. And so for our warm up question of the day, I'm curious to know from all of your triathlon related travels, what is the biggest travel snafu you have experienced? Take it away.

Mike Buenting: Hey, thanks for having me on the Tri Dot podcast today. Excited to be here. Travel snafu, I would say. I think it was 2018, I was flying to Denmark to race world champs for duathlon. So run, bike run.

Andrew: Oh cool.

Mike: Yeah. And I remember we flew to Copenhagen, got the rental car, drove out to Odins where the town was, where we were racing, which is maybe a few hour drive. And I got there, I rolled my bike in its bike bag into the Team USA mechanic and we pulled it out and it was broken and like parts were laying in the bottom of the case and the Team USA mechanic didn't have what I needed. So I left my bike in the bag and began to roll it around cobblestone streets after being awake for like 24 hours.

Andrew: Go to bike shops and try to figure out how can who can fix this? Yeah.

Mike: And does anybody have a part? And so finally after at the last shop, I ended at the kid there. I traded a 12 pack of beer for a road bike that was on his showroom floor that didn't fit me properly. And then I left my bike as collateral. So. And he let me borrow this road bike to race. So I raced on a road bike instead of a tri bike didn't fit me properly and it cost me a 12 pack of beer.

Andrew: How did your body feel after riding that long on a ill, ill properly fitted bike?

Mike: You know, it was really frustrating because I'm a fast runner. So coming off the first 10k, I was in the top five. And I could only hold on for so long on the bike until every fast bikes flew by me. I threw down a good 5k at the end and I wrote as strong as I could. I think I probably ended up in the top 10 or maybe just outside the top 10. But yeah, great, quite where I wanted to be because when you're on a road bike that doesn't fit you, it's, it's kind of like, you know, not, not the right tool for the job.

Andrew: That, that, that is a top tier story. I, I just, I threw this question in. I, I know you traveled a lot and that's, that, that's a good one right there. My answer here, Mike. My wife and I, before we started having kids, when it was just the two of us, we would kind of use races for vacations, right? We pick a race somewhere interesting in the world and turn it into a two week trip. And so when I went to race 70.3 Greece, you know, we're pretty competent, like, like trip planners. Like we feel good about like figuring out where to stay and where to go and itineraries. But Greece was so complex because you can take the ferry to this island and a plane to that island and there was so much to it that we actually use a travel agency to help us book a lot of that trip. And so we were doing two weeks in Greece. At the end of the trip, I was doing the half IRONMAN there and then we were flying home. And so when I was going back and forth with the travel agency, you know, I was telling them what I was doing and so they knew that I'm bringing a bike. I had at the time one of the Scion, like big bike suitcases. And so I was telling them, hey, when we get picked up from the airport, like, we've got these two bags, we're gonna have a couple travel bags and I've got this big bike case. No, like, yeah, yeah, like, no problem, we'll make sure the car's big enough. Can you send us the dimensions of the bike case? And so I send them the dimensions of the bike case. And so we get there, we land, we get all our luggage, we go outside and it's just a normal taxi that was booked for Us with a normal trunk and a normal back seat. And like, the guy's looking at me, I'm looking at the guy, and we're like, we gotta figure out how to get this in. And so we ended up like, the bike thankfully fit in the trunk. The trunk was still, like, open. He like bungee corded the trunk together for the to not all fly out. And then my wife and I are crammed in the back seat of the taxi with all of our, like, big luggage suitcases on our laps. And we rode that way, 20, 30 minutes to the hotel in Athens. But thankfully we got there. I was just, I was just glad we got there. But it was like, guys, like, we talked about this. I told you exactly what I was bringing and how big it is. And, you know, it was what it was. We got through it. So that's my story here. We're going to throw this question out to our audience. So whether you're watching us on YouTube or Spotify, you can comment in the comment section below. From all your triathlon travel, what is the biggest travel snafu you have encountered? If you're in the I Am TriDot Facebook group, I'm going to pose this question to the I Am TriDot Facebook group. Let us know from all your travels what's gone wrong. Can't wait to hear it.

Announcer: Let's go.

Andrew: On to our main set. And Mike, I'm so excited to have you with me just to talk all things bike helmets. But before we kind of have you shared your goodness and your knowledge? You know, you're new to our podcast audience. I know you're very familiar with TriDot and we see you a lot at the races, you know, a lot of members of our team. But I want our audience just to get to know you for a second. So. So before we hear from Mike the helmet expert, I want to hear from Mike the triathlete. And when did you get into the sport and how long have you been a triathlete? What are some of your favorite events you've done along your journey?

Mike: Yeah, I've been around sport a long time. I would say my background started in running and I was a run coach and a marathoner and I ran cool. 40 plus marathons and travel.

Andrew: What's that marathon PR. What's that marathon PR mike?

Mike: 239. So I've only, I've only run maybe of like 40 plus marathons. Probably only three of them have been over three hours. Otherwise, everything's been a sub three.

Andrew: That's awesome.

Mike: So during My serious kind of more marathoning days. Triathlon was my way to cross train in the summer between doing a spring and a fall marathon. And so I started in sport by just doing sprints and Olympics, you know, mostly local races, things like that. And then I started getting more serious and kind of really, you know, getting into the sport more. 2012 is when I did my first IRONMAN, which was IRONMAN Arizona. I'm excited. I'm training for IRONMAN Arizona right now, which is going to be the final of that race, I guess. So I'm glad I get to do the final edition of it, you know, so, so I've been around, you know, and then probably 20, 25 years been, you know, doing triathlon, marathoning, all, all the things. I'm 51 years old, so I'm an old dude, you know. I have a daughter that was a collegiate triathlete. So she started racing with me when she was 8 years old, got a scholarship to go do it on one of the NCAA teams. Just graduated in the spring and now she's at grad school getting her masters in exercise science. So triathlon is like a way of life. And it to me, like, I love being at events in the community and seeing all the athletes and supporting the athletes and you know, when I travel to an IRONMAN for work, like I was just a Chattanooga over the weekend or when I was at Lake Placid this summer. I mean I'm, I'm the guy that's at the swim start and I'm out there till probably 11 o' clock at night or something, just cheering all day long and just like, hi everybody. Bringing the energy. I'd say my favorite race of anything I've ever done has to be challenge Roth in Germany. It's epic. I mean, you've never experienced triathlon until you go to Germany and you see the way the Europeans embrace it and the way that event is put on. Like there's just, you know, no matter what's going on out there, there's just walls of people screaming at you. It's, it's pretty awesome, you know. Another new favorite of mine I just did a couple weeks ago is IRONMAN 70.3 Tri Cities in Washington. And that was good things you and your wife do. Race cations. That's what this was. It was my 25th wedding anniversary. So my wife and I love wine, so we went out to tour wineries. So I lived at wineries all week drinking wine and then what a week. And then we raced at the end of the week and then I, you know, I go on throw down the fastest run, qualify for world champs in Nice and have this great race all fueled on wine.

Andrew: That was my next question was how was your performance? And so pretty good, pretty good off the wire.

Mike: Well, you know, I'm finally getting my run legs back, which has been something I've been working on all year.

Andrew: Yeah, new, new hydration strategy coming from Mike here to preload with wine the week of your race.

Mike: Yeah, Cabernet. And you'll be ready to roll.

Andrew: So, so Mike, talking about helmets and I've, I've got my two current helmets on my desk to, to kind of show and tell, but I'm just, I know for you it's going to be Rudy Project helmets. What are the helmets in your personal rotation right now that when you go out for rides you're, you're putting them on and you're using them.

Mike: Yeah, I got my three top ones right here. Yes. So in fact this morning I don't. If you can see this, this is called the Rebel by Rudy Project. So this is an all, this is an all new helmet came out. This is what I rode for three hours in today. This is an extremely lightweight helmet. It's our lightest weight helmet.

Andrew: It's about 200, very, very airy and.

Mike: It's 100% made of recycled material. So Rudy Project has this initiative called Ride to Zero where we're trying to lessen our impact on mother Earth. So like all of our eyewear frames are made from recycled material. And then this helmet is the first iteration in it and it's extremely safe, comes with the Virginia Tech five star safety rating. It's very lightweight. So this has kind of been my go to training helmet or a lot of times a gravel bike. So the gravel bike riders or the cross country mountain bike riders that I work with, a lot of them will ride in the Rebel.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mike: The other helmet I wear a lot because I love pink is the Nytron and we'll kind of go.

Andrew: That's the one I've seen you in at the race. I've seen you in that one kind.

Mike: Of go into this one later because this is a great all arounder. This is designed in the wind tunnel with Swiss side. It's extremely fast and aerodynamic. But it's a road style helmet so you can obviously wear it in triathlon. You can wear it in road cycling, draft, legal triathlon, like a lot of the draft collegiate NCAA teams that I work with. This is what their girls Wear in because it's aerodynamic and it's legal to wear in draft legal type stuff. Yeah. So my gravel riders will wear it and then the other one is, you know, I don't really train in it much but it's the all new Wing Dream by Wordy Project. The fastest arrow helmet on the market right now. The most ventilation, comfort. This is my race helmet in triathlon. Very rarely do I ever put it on in training because you just.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike: You look goofy.

Andrew: I've, I've, yeah, I've seen that one very recently on, on all the socials for the Rudy Project pros. Right. As they're giving up for the world championships, I've started seeing that one on their heads in their pictures and it's like, man, that thing is, it's, it's cool looking. It's, it's ridiculous looking in a cool cycling pro way. Right. But what, what?

Mike: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's dominating the wind tunnels and stuff. It's fast. I mean if you go down the list, tons of the athletes we don't even sponsor. I mean I sell the helmet to lots of pros just because that's the helmet that tests fastest on them.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what they are. That, that makes a big difference for them and we'll get to some of that kind of stuff in a minute. But my, my current rotation and my rotation is dated and we're going to talk a little bit about when it's time to replace your helmet. I've had these two helmets for a long time. My, my road cycling helmet. A cast per Toni Pertone. However you're supposed to say it, I'm probably going to get it wrong. That's what I do my around town road riding in and, and that, that honestly was just like when it was time to get a new road helmet. What, what did the triathlon shop. We have Play Try shops here in Dallas Fort Worth around us. So what did Play Try have in stock that fit my head well and that's why I bought that one. There was really no other rhyme or reason to it other than that. And this guy literally I bought this about seven years ago maybe so again, dated the POC Cerebel.

Mike: We're going to fix your helmet collection.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And selfishly again, I know it's dated. I know a lot of stuff has hit the market since, since I've bought these. So maybe selfishly I just wanted to learn about Rudy Project's lineup. So. And honestly I Asked Mike to come on that there was no like, like push to this isn't a big giant ad for Rudy project. I want to learn about helmets. I knew he was the guy. So just genuine conversation here. But yeah, this is my POC Cerebel. You'll notice that it does not have the built in visor plugged in. I always use my sunglasses instead of the built in visor which we'll talk about that in a little bit as well. Pros and cons to that. Yeah, I've done all my racing in this for, for a while and that's my current, my current lineup. So if you're watching this on YouTube or watching us on Spotify, you get to see Mike and I's helmets. If you're listening to us. Well, you just got the audio description which is all good. But Mike, what I'm curious about before we talk about how to pick the right helmet, how are these things made? Just, just from step number one, I imagine some sort of design process to them hitting the store shelf. What is the process here?

Mike: That's a question I won't be very good at answering since it's not kind of my world.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mike: So obviously we're an Italian company. We have a helmet designer in Italy, Niberto, who works on all the helmet designs. A lot of, I think a lot of our stuff will is collaborations like with our Grand Tour team, Tim Bahrain that we sponsor. So like those, those athletes that team director, I think, you know, they'll get together and spend years sketching things out, handcrafting models, taking them to wind tunnels or whatever they do to test and try to, you know, find out what it kind of works, you know, there and then get it to the point where it's ready to like go into production. And then you know, Roberto and the team in Italy deals with the factory and, and all that kind of stuff. So I can't speak because I don't clearly to that because I don't get too involved in the actual.

Andrew: Sure.

Mike: You know, process of making them. I'm, I, I learn about them once they're designed and kind of ready to go. You know, with the Winged Dream, our new aero helmet. I was, you know, part of a little bit of testing it last summer some and, and given some feedback to a couple little tweaks we made before it did hit the public. Mostly just in the visor type of thing. But other than that. Yeah, I don't get to, I don't get involved at all, I should say in the, the making of the helmets. I'm just told, here's the new lineup coming out. Let's, let's talk about it and how to market it and educate athletes on it.

Andrew: Yeah. So, so the, the product team comes up with some sort of initial sketch. They, they put together, I'm sure, prototypes. You're one of the beta testers for the prototype, give some feedback and then the, the, the final materials are chosen. I'm sure the final, everything is chosen. Very much the same with software. Right. And, and there are, you know, we have our software developers always refining, Try dot, refining Run dot. There's actually a lot of new exciting stuff coming to our app that I know is being beta tested right now by staff and ambassadors. So sounds similar. But I'm like you, right? I'm part of the marketing arm. I'm part of the let's get out there and talk about it arm. So totally get that. But I remember Mike when I first became. So you've been in the sport for 20 to 25 years. I've been in triathlon for 10 to 13, 10 to 12, 20, 14. So I guess 11 years, years now I've been in triathlon. And I remember when I first got into the sport, for me, the cycling was the last component. I was swimming in the gym regularly, I was running after work regularly. And so adding on the bike was like the last part of me becoming a triathlete. And so I was like, everything was new to me. Like I just went down to the bike shop and bought an entry level specialized road bike and just whatever, whatever helmet they sold me, whatever, whatever shoes they showed sold me. And I've learned a lot since then. But I remember when I, I was starting to learn and upgrade this piece of gear, that piece of gear, get a more triathlon version of this, a more triathlon version of that. When I started looking at helmets, it was like, oh, here's the, here's the highly ventilated road lightweight helmet. Here's the kind of everyday well rounded helmet. Here's the aero road helmet, here's the race TT helmet. And every brand kind of has like their line of which helmet you're supposed to use for what. And so I guess what I'm curious is like, what are the biggest differences in the different types of helmets that each brand has that they market to us as athletes?

Mike: Yeah, there's a lot of variety in helmets. And a question I answer with, with athletes all the time, you know, and trying to figure out what helmet's right for them. You know, there's obviously Lightweight. Like we talked about the Rebel, it's super lightweight. It has a lot of vent. It has 22 vents in it. So it vents extremely well. So if you're in hot climates, things like that. We kind of talked about stuff that's like an aero road helmet, you know, that has great ventilation but it's more aerodynamic. Can even, you know, because it's not as open invented keep you a little warmer on like a cool climate or a cool day or whatever. And of course you get into all the arrow arrow helmets and the crazy stuff there. You got mountain bike helmets, you got grab, you know, stuff you would ride gravel, I mean really riding gravel. They're using, you know, stuff from the road. So. So a road cycling helmet and even cross country mountain biking. Most of the cross country mountain biker racers because it's not as technical, steep trails, it's, you know, flowy trails. They're going to use more road style helmets. Interesting. Yeah, a lot like our, you know, something like the Rebel and stuff like that. Because when you're doing an endurance type race, you know, whether it's like the unbound gravel race or it's something like a Leadville 100 mountain bike race or something, I mean weight's a big thing, right. You're out there for 10 weight.

Andrew: Ventilation is probably bigger than aero.

Mike: They're going to be huge, you know, and then, you know, comfort is another key, key piece to it too. And like we have, I call them two, two different style road helmets that are sort of similar. One the Rebel that I showed you and then we also have another one called the Egos. And I think sometimes it comes even like people's head shapes. I can wear both quite well. But sometimes I find dealing with people like the Egos might fit one head shape a little better than the Rebel would fit. So there's a little bit of that that comes into play too, you know, depending on. On things. But I think, you know, the biggest thing is I always find, because I ride bikes for a long time, I mean any. I always say, and it's kind of even in shoes or lots of things you can kind of suffer through an hour workout in about anything minute. You cross our barrier and you start going longer, you need to start really thinking about the nutrition, the comfort of your gear all.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mike: Factor in a lot more. So I think you kind of got to look at what it is you do and then kind of figure it out from there.

Andrew: Yeah. And the reason I ended up in this POC Cerebel is, is I was finally stepping up from doing local sprint Olympics to doing my first half IRONMAN, I was, okay, I need, I want a proper TT helmet. And just for family budget, I was looking for what is the cheapest deal I can score on somebody's Arrow TT helmet. And I happen to find this one in my size on eBay for 150 bucks. At the time, it was a great deal for how much that helmet was going for. And it's, it's. I live in Dallas, Texas. It's, it's a pretty hot helmet, to be honest. It's not the most comfortable on my head. I can do it for half IRONMAN pretty well. I could feel it on my head. The back half of my first IRONMAN. Right. And so yeah, that, that's a big deal. I ended up in that one just because it was the right price at the time I was purchasing a TT helmet and I've just kind of grinned and bared it ever Since. But you're 100% right. On our podcast all the time when we're talking about stepping up from shorter distances to longer distance comfort is just a big one that we talk about. But, um, it's, it's interesting watching like just on social media when I'll see clips from like cycle, cyclocross, professional events. I'll see, you know, clips from, you know, the, the, the mountain bike events. You mentioned Leadville and it's interesting to see like what are those guys grabbing? And it's a, it's a lot of. Yeah, it's, it's, it's road, it's road helmets that those guys are using. So really, really interesting. Is, is it good for us just as average triathletes, just as everyday triathletes, Is there, is there enough of a difference between these models that it's good for us to have two, three, four different helmets for different purposes? Or can we get away with the one or two?

Mike: So, yes, there. If you can own multiple helmets, obviously great. If you can't, then I have my suggestion. So if you can have at least two helmets, let's say, I would say you would want a nice, lightweight, good, everyday road style training helmet. You know, something, you know, along the lines of, you know, this, you know, the, the Rebel I helmet, right? That that's what you're going to wear all days. But if you're racing especially 70.3 or further faster that you can't, you got to have one.

Andrew: I mean it really, it makes a huge difference.

Mike: Yeah, yeah. Now I would say, you know, if you're chasing podiums, world championship slots, all trying to better or just a PR.

Andrew: Or just a personal PR or just.

Mike: A pr that's going to make a difference because the data on that helmet, I mean that's free Watts. I mean we're finding out riders are saving, using that Wing dream anywhere from probably 8 to 16 watts over the course of an IRONMAN. It's saving them upwards of like 12 minutes in their bike split or something, which is a significant amount of time. So there's, there's definitely a reason to use that helmet. Now if you can only afford one helmet, you're just entry getting into the sport, you're still on your road bike, all the things and just get a road helmet. I'd get a Nytron, I'd get the Arrow Road style.

Andrew: Yeah, like an Arrow Road helmet. Yeah.

Mike: In fact, when I did challenge Roth last summer, I wore this, I wore my pink Nytron because I wasn't there chasing anything. I was there for the experience I was there for and I know that that's a very comfortable helmet. For 112 miles on a bike, it's easy to pack into my backpack and take with me all the things and I was going to be out there training and riding bikes for a few days and I only had space for one on helmet. So that helmet just, it worked, you know. Now would I do that all the time? No. I mean typically I take my Wing dream with me and we have a really nice travel case. So I, I think the rider just needs to look at obviously their budget and then look at what types of riding. I mean so many of us triathletes are starting to diversify and ride gravel bike, do other types of riding besides just sitting in aero bars all the time. So that's where I think, yeah, having a couple options is really good.

Andrew: Yeah. There's a really cool feature in TriDot that a lot of our listeners, if you've been on the app for a while, you'll know this. Some listeners might not know this. It's kind of an advanced feature. Not even an advanced feature, just a feature. You need to know it's there to go find it. But you can in your race X like if you add a race to your calendar. So let's say Mike, who's doing IRONMAN Arizona, you can open up that race and you can play, play with aerodynamic scenarios for your bike setup and so you can show TriDot. Okay. I have a medium caliber aerodynamic helmet and I have a intermediate aerodynamic bike. I have deep dish wheels. I'M going to wear a skin suit and it will based off of that, estimate what your CDA is going to be and then spit out what is your potential bike split. And so you can play with. It's called what if scenarios. You can run a what if scenarios of what if I bought a nicer helmet. And so if you go from a entry level, you know, you know, road helmet to the most advanced one that Mike's talking about, you can actually see in tried out on air IRONMAN, Arizona. Of course with your fitness, how much time would that save you versus deep dish wheels or versus a different purchase? You can kind of spend your money appropriately and I think you'll find the helmet is a pretty good bang for your buck. Aerodynamic saving.

Mike: So that's, that's a cool feature. I did not know that existed in Troy. That's awesome.

Andrew: Yeah, it's in there.

Mike: But yeah, yeah, the, a helmet, an arrow type helmet is the least amount of money for the biggest watt saving gain you can get in triathlon. So first would be a helmet, next would be wheels and then you kind of go from there. So.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, totally agree. Another example there is like when I went and did Escape from Alcatraz, I ran a scenario for will I be faster on my Arrow road bike or will I be faster on my TT bike On this course with my fitness and for me the road bike was the better pick. It looked at my fitness, looked at the, the up and down hills and so I took the road bike. But anyway, so Mike, just you talking about like just how many do we really need? To me it kind of reminds me of like a run shoe rotation. And you'll probably know this as a running guy, like if somebody has the budget for just one run shoe, they don't want to go out and just constantly have three or four shoes in the closet like you, you can get a, a good daily trainer that is suited to race day. That, that, that's light, has the latest foams or if you can afford a couple pair, you can have like a, a beefier daily trainer for the long slow day. And you can have a race day shoe and you can have a tempo day shoe. And so to me it sounds kind of like the same thing. Like if you can just afford one helmet, you only want to bother with one helmet. Okay. Get that aero road helmet, that it has some aerodynamic properties but still has some ventilation, is still practical for day to day riding. But if you can afford to have a couple, it sounds like it's good to have a Couple and I've, I've always felt like I have enough with the two. I absolutely see. You know where you have working for Rudy project, you can have the three. So you've got the lightweight one, the middle, the aerodynamic one. So yeah, that's. It's just budget, right? It's just budget. How many can you get in your arsenal?

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. Do something different and it'll, I mean, it also makes the helmet life longer, right? Like, right. Because obviously the UV rays of the sun and all the stuff that beat down on your helmet and start to. And the more you wear it, it's going to wear out faster. So you can kind of afford to spend the money on that proper aero helmet and get a longer lifespan out of it, probably because, because you're only maybe wearing it, you know, a handful of times a season, right. Otherwise you're kind of keeping it protected and safe. Where that road helmet you wear daily is going to wear out faster. You're going to turn it over faster. Just like in shoes, you know, like when I coached runners, we were talking about one pair of shoes. Like to avoid injury. You kind of needed multiple pairs of shoes because you needed the rotation, because you needed the foam to rebound the next day after, before you went out on it. You know, you got to track miles on shoes. Kind of almost track mileage on time in the sun on your helmet too, right?

Andrew: Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. And we'll get to that. The next thing I want to talk about though, while we're talking about aerodynamic properties of these helmets is I've got a couple questions for you about race day helmets specifically, because that, I mean that, that's a big choice, right? We're talking about how much time you can save just by choosing the right helmet on race day. And all the pros are going to wear the, the big time arrow one. Um, there's so many watt savings there if you can afford to have a specific race day helmet. But you know, those, those athletes, like, they have the ability to go into the wind tunnel. You, you, you mentioned a moment ago, so many are going into the wind tunnel and finding the, the new Rudy Project 1 to be faster than the version of the brand they're sponsored by, right. So they're switching to yours for the time savings. They, they, they can afford to go do that, right? And get in the wind tunnel and figure that out for the rest of us. Like, how can we, and I remember trying to do this as an athlete, like, how can we look at what our position on the bike is and figure out between these 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 different helmets on the market, which one is going to be the best fit for our aero position.

Mike: So that gets back to almost another pitch for the Wing Dream. Because, I mean, and, and I don't.

Andrew: Know if you, you're a company man doing your company job. I get it.

Mike: Well, I mean, here's the deal. When that helmet came out, I was trying not to drink the Kool Aid on it, but over time, I'm a hundred percent drunk on the Kool Aid because it's just, there's too much data, there's too much proof that it really is that great. And Jim Manton from Aerosports just put out a YouTube video the other day in his Faster fiction thing where he took the 10, 10 arrow helmets head to head. And Rudy Project came out on the end. And basically his quote at the end was, if you can't afford to go test just by the Wing Dream, because he's tested so many athletes in it out in the real world that no matter what their position is, whether they're a pro, an age group or what, that helmet is always testing fast. And, and that helmet's given the most ventilation, the best vision, all, all the things. So it's just that it's turning out like how aero helmets kind of get designed to give a quick study here, right? It's all from the Grand Tour teams, right? Like the Tour de France. So you know, whether you're making that Giro Arrowhead 2, that big crazy looking thing was really designed around Remco One rider, right? Like, so what will happen is, is those teams that have their time trial specialist, that's who works with whoever their team helmet sponsor is and they try to design all the properties around really one rider. We got super lucky, maybe, I don't know if luck's the word. We just got smart. We're smarter, better at Rudy Project. The helmet we designed for our time trust just happens to work on a variety, variety of riders. It's not just specific to say one rider, right? You know, where a lot of those other helmets are designed to one rider, so they work amazingly perfectly on one person, but they don't translate to everybody else where this helmet just for whatever reason has been translating to everybody else really, really well. So it is, it's, it's tough. I mean, you know, there's starting to be more things where Wahoo now makes a, one of their bike computers with narrow sense and you can kind of do your own little testing yourselves out in real Life. So there, there's things out there like that. But I think for most of us age groupers, no matter which, you know, find the one that we really like, the look of that we like, that we can afford. You know, pricing's gonna be all over the place, has good ventilation, vision, you know, comfort, all the things. And I mean, they're going to be faster than this. You know, there can be a significant watt savings from, like, you know, one helmet to another, but for the most part, you're always going to be faster and, you know, something of that nature. Yeah, true.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Mike: You know, and another, not to dovetail off this too much, but I get this question a lot, too, about, what is a white helmet cooler than a black helmet?

Andrew: Yeah, good question.

Mike: And those things. And there's actually a video, Videos and testing out there where thermo testing was done, and to find out that a black helmet is no hotter than a white helmet. Now, if you set them both in the sun and touch the top, yeah, the black helmet's going to feel hotter. Right. But that heat does not translate from the external shell of a helmet into your head foam inside, which means it does not affect the internal cool cooling of the athlete's head. Therefore, the consensus of the video in the study was wear whatever color helmet you want. They're all the same. They're all the same temperature inside.

Andrew: I didn't have a question about that, so I'm glad you brought that up. I. I am. It's funny how, like, the trends change, like, for a long time across sports and all sports, like, black shoes, black cleats, black socks. Like, you know, those dark accent colors were trendy. And now white shoes, white. Everybody's. Everybody's race shoes are white and not black. I remember Jan Frodeno winning Kona, and he was wearing, like, these, like, prototype black Asics shoes with these black Asics socks and, like, an all black kit. He looked so freaking cool. And now everybody's wearing all white, everything. I'm a. I'm a black guy. I don't know. I'm attracted to, like, the, the dark accent colors. And so, yeah, my, my race helmets are always black. And so that, that's. That's good validation for me, Mike. I appreciate that one. But. But on that, like, I, I remember re. You know, reading again back when I was first learning about helmets as a new cyclist 12 years ago, so that this may have changed since then, but it seemed like everybody was suggesting when you're picking a helmet that there was a trade off between how ventilated the helmet was going to be and how arrow it was going to be. And so you know, you wanted it to be as arrow as possible for the, for the watt savings, but you also needed to be ventilated enough to not only overheat your head on the race course. And so when you look at everybody's, everybody's top of the line TT helmet, some have some cooling vents, some don't have cooling vents, some have take different approaches to trying to cool your head in. In the mo most modern day race helmets, is this kind of been figured out where they can be both or is there somewhat of a trade off between how arrow your helmet is versus how, how ventilated it is? What do we need to know about, about choosing this for ourselves?

Mike: Yeah, that's definitely a good question. And I would say some aero helmets are cooler and vent better than others. And you can just kind of see in the design. And not to keep getting back to the infomercial for the Wing Dream, but that's one of its things is like you know, the wing dream because it has so much space here. Once it's on your head on the sides, it really brings airflow up in here and vents, you have your cooling vent up here that you don't need to plug. But because of that and the width of it, it really vents extremely well. And it's, it's designed to flow out the back where our model previous to this just the wing where it was a more tighter fit to your head. And that's how a lot of helmets are. And there was a magnet and there's a magnetic removable thing there. But if you need it for airflow on, on the top. But it had a port out the back where the airflow would come in the vent and then come out the, the port in the back. And it's still vented really well also. But I think this new Wing Dream vents a lot better just because there's more openness here while it's on your head, on your shoulders that that airflow can get up and in and through and out. So I think you can kind of put on a helmet and kind of get a feel for it that way. I mean, you know, we'll be honest. I mean you're, yes, you're always going to trade some ventilation for speed when you're talking about an aero helmet to.

Andrew: To a road helmet like this.

Mike: Like obviously this is going to be cooler, right? It just is. But you're going to give up all the aerodynamic watt savings. So you kind of have to trade what it is you're looking for.

Andrew: And to your point earlier, like if, if peak performance isn't your concern, you're okay giving up 10 watts, right? To, to be more comfortable and have better ventilation. There are pros, there are pros that will race the world championships right there. Yeah. In an, a road helmet because they figured out for them I perform better if I have that extra ventilation. I'm okay giving up the 8 watts or whatever it is. So yeah, it's, it's, it's finding what's best for you. And Mike, I appreciate your, your candor on that. One thing I alluded to earlier. So I don't actually use the built in visor and that's not for, for the built in visor that came with this model is very, very good. I can see through it well. I like it plenty fine. I just did testing in my stamina workouts and my race rehearsal workouts. I'm more comfortable in my sunglasses, in the helmet, a little bit extra wind flow and I again not Rudy Project, I've got the Roka matadors, right. And Rudy Project has a very similar model that has just really, really good eye coverage. And so I, I found with that this is my main reason for, for doing this. I'm a contact wearer and so with my contacts in and the, the, the visor that came with the POC Cerebel, I don't think came down as far as the Wing Dream. And so I, I got quite a bit of wind crosswind across my eyes and so it dropped my contacts out. And so if I'm using my really big lens sunglasses, that actually was blocking more winds than the built in visor. And so that's why I made that switch personally. But I've seen people debate back and forth and I've seen some pros do reports that for this pro they actually tested more aero with the built in visor. And for this pro they found they tested faster in their sunglasses without the built in visor. And so I'm sure it depends on the helmet model. It depends on what sunglasses you have. It depends on your position. But what do you guys find as a brand to, to be. Do you encourage. Does it matter all that much whether we use sunglasses with the helmet or is there advantage to using the built in visor? What have you guys learned from your testing?

Mike: Yeah, so with the version previous to the Wing Dream, which was called just the Wing, that helmet I used a lot. Some of our pros used a lot with just sunnies because it was the tight fit. And so the opening wasn't as big. The visor, all that stuff wasn't as big. So you could.

Andrew: And similar to mine, very similar shape to mine.

Mike: You could put your sunnies on and go out there and ride as such and not, and you'd be just fine. Right. Like, it wasn't that drastic of a difference to using the visor or not visor. So I think it really depends on the helmet. Now, people with the wing dream this thing. Yeah. The minute you take the hydro now you're just like, you know, a big whale sucking up like Darth Vader. I mean, it's this helmet. I would say you need the visor.

Andrew: Okay.

Mike: Like it. Now, a great thing about this helmet that I've learned, too, is because there's so much space when the athlete's in there that if they wear safe prescription glasses, they can have their prescription glasses on under the helmet.

Andrew: That's a real thing. Yeah, that's a real need for some folks.

Mike: All the protection and all the aerodynamic features. But you can still have your sunnies on underneath the helmet if you want, because there's space. And so people with prescription eyewear have been able to wear their eyewear under there and not even have to do the contacts or whatever. But, you know, I think it just depends on the design of the helmet. If it's a big, wide helmet like that with the visor, you're gonna want the visor. That's how it's going to perform its best. If it's more of the old school style where it's a little tighter to your head, you know, like what you have, like our old. The wing, then it's, you know, riders, you know, dependent. Do they want sunnies or do they want the visor?

Andrew: Yeah, and it's so funny, like. Like, you. You held that up, and you've held it up a couple times, but you held it up in relation to that question. And immediately you can see the way that visor is the first thing breaking the wind. Right. As opposed to it just being a visor that's kind of built in to shield your eyes. Like, it's. You can see the. Where form meets function. It's meant to do that. So that. That's helpful. People can look at their own arrow helmet and kind of determine, okay, is this just kind of built in for my eye protection, or is this, like a leading feature of the front of this helmet? So. Because there are some that. That belong kind of in both camps. So earlier you mentioned the University of Virginia. Right?

Mike: Does, does the genetech. Yeah, yeah. Does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew: They're famous for that. And, and a lot of us have seen every single year, you can kind of Google and see how the Virginia Tech does testing on, on bike helmets to, to prove how safe they are. What, what, what's kind of the difference here? Like, like, so, so obviously in their testing, they're finding there are some helmets that are safer than others. They're better at protecting your head than others. And there's plenty that, that have the best rating and some have lower ratings. Like, what, what do we know. Need to know here? Like, what makes one helmet better at protecting.

Mike: I think. Well, first of all, all helmets are protect our head better. And as long as they're within, you know, reasonable, you know, time. You know, like the other day I was riding and I saw a guy literally in this, like, I don't know, $30 Schwinn helmet where all the material was cracking and peeling off of it and it was down to pretty much just foam. The helmet's probably 20 years old and he's wearing it. And I'm like, I don't want to tell you what to do, but that helmet's. It doesn't look very safe. You might want to update it. You know, I said to him, I.

Andrew: Do this for a living and I'm concerned about you.

Mike: You know, I mean, obviously, and we can get into that. You know, if you go onto the safety commission website and stuff, they'll say a helmet's lifespan is five to seven years. Right. So, okay, again, getting back to what we talked about earlier, you know, with aero helmets, because you only use them so much and they're not out there, you could probably extend that even to 10 years on it or something. Right. Because it's a helmet not getting used all the time. But if it's your daily use helmet, all the. Push it more into that five years.

Andrew: It's going out into the elements, going out into the sun, like ages. It, it's not just. If it's just sitting in your closet, it's not aging at all, correct?

Mike: Yeah, yeah, it's beat up as much as being out in the elements and used all the time, you know, so, yeah, all helmets are, you know, all helmets are safe, obviously. Yes. There's going to be these tests and people are going to review them and, and people really get hung up on MIPS. Right. Like, should it be or not? Right. You know, a lot of helmet manufacturers have gotten away from Always using MIPS. I equate MIPS a lot of times to Kleenex. Right? Like, it's kind of like, you know, a brand name and you kind of pay to have it on there. And you've seen like Trek with Bond tracker helmets go to their own wave cell and, you know, there's. And even us at Rudy Project and many of us that have found, like going through this WG11 testing and some of these other different formats that are just as safe or safer in the way they put the rotational impact stuff in there to protect you for safety. So I, my, I would say don't get hung up on the word MIPS, as that's the only safe helmet out there. I think all of the helmets have to go through a certain certification. All the helmets have to go through extensive testing. So no matter what, who makes the helmet, no matter what the sticker is in there, as long as it's got that, you know, the safety sticker in there, the ce, the cs, you know, like, it's safe, it's ready to go. And I would feel confident in it. I mean, I, I hate getting these emails, but I get them a lot from athletes. Hey, thank you. Your helmet saved my life. You know, I mean, a lot of it is the Nytron, our arrow road helmet we talked about. Because a lot of these guys are racing in crits, which we know. Crits are crazy, right?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mike: A lot of my road racers that do racing all the time are sending me these wicked pictures of them all like, banged up and boom. But hey, that helmet saved their life. So the main key is get your helmet on, get it buckled, get a helmet that fits and keep you safe. Because I see a lot of riders recently too, when I'm just on a bike path, you know, so it's casual riders, they might have a helmet on their head, but the straps are dangling, buckle the thing. And I'm like, what's the point? But whatever.

Andrew: Yeah, we, we, we have a little helmet for my, for my daughter. At the time we're recording this, she's two and a half years old. She has a little tricycle. She can freaking rip on that thing. Like, she zips around the house, she zips around the neighborhood. And, and we make her for, like, if she's going to go outside and ride, we make her put on a helmet. So for a long time we wouldn't let her go right outside because she didn't want to put on the helmet. And she finally got convinced that the helmet is cool. And so she'll wear the helmet very willingly. But, yeah, I make sure. Like, I like. My wife lets me do it. I dial in that strap exactly where it needs to be, and I tighten it. I rotate it on her head, and it's tricky if she's wearing a ponytail, but without a ponytail, it fits really well. And I'm constantly watching, like, okay, is it sitting on her head correctly? But this isn't a question on our sheet, but for our people listening or even watching, able to see you, like, how much room are we looking for in that. That strap? How tight should we dial down that. That BOA dial a lot of helmets have in the back to make sure it's fitting our head properly for safety.

Mike: Yeah, I mean, the BOA dial, I mean, you want to get that retention strap snug. And a lot of helmets, they'll be, you know, like, in here, there's. There's ways you can even adjust them. You know, slide this forward or word, based on where you need it to position on your head properly to get, you know, the retention strap in there, the chin strap. Yeah, you want to get it buckled where you're comfortable, you know, I mean, you want it tight, but not, like, so snug and tight. It's choking you some. Like, I don't make mine, so you.

Andrew: Shouldn't be getting a headache by how much you've tightened. I don't.

Mike: Yeah. And I don't get super concerned about how it flows over my ears. Some people will send me, hey, I can't get it to line on my ears, right? And I'm like, you know, that's. That's personal preference and comfort, I think, a lot of times in there. I mean, I try to get it in there, but not always do I get it lined up perfectly. So I just want to get it on. So as long I feel like as long as I get that BOA dial and I don't feel the head. The helmet rocking all over on my head, and it feels pretty tight and snug, then you're pretty good to go.

Andrew: Okay. When should we replace our helmets, Mike?

Mike: According to the safety commission website, it'd be every five to seven years.

Andrew: So I am. I'm out of date.

Mike: I'm out of date, you know? I mean. Yeah, I mean, that's the main range. I mean, as they say, you can get up to 10 years. Once your helmet's past 10 years old, you probably really should start thinking about replacing it. And it's tough with helmets because I. I have helmets like that, too. Right where they don't look like they've barely been worn.

Andrew: They look, yeah, it looks fine. Yeah.

Mike: And. But then you look at it and you think of how old it is and you're like, oh, wow, maybe I should replace that Again, any helmet's safer than no helmet. But that's what they say. So I just kind of go off of that and say, hey, this is what safety commission saying. So kind of use your own judgment within these guidelines.

Andrew: Now, I know obviously if someone is in a wreck and their helmet is wrecked and they're sending you an email saying like, hey, look at this thing, it's crazy to save my life. Like, clearly they're going to be replacing their helmet after that. But is there anything we should be on the lookout for in terms of light cracking or if we drop it on pavement and it looks fine, is there any concern, like if we, you know, you do a group ride and you're at a red light and somebody next to you falls over into you and then you fall over because of it and it just dings the concrete a little bit, but it looks fine or has a scuff, like, what, what is a red flag that, okay, this needs to be replaced or thinking about replacing versus it's going to be, it's going to be fine.

Mike: Yeah. I think anytime your head goes down and wax the pavement or the dirt or whatever, I mean, that's probably a, a moment you might want to start thinking about, hey, maybe I should replace this thing. Because you don't know how and it's hard. You can't always see and tell if the integrity of the helmet's been ding. Now if it's a pretty light, there's a pretty light fall. Like in mountain biking, we go down all the time. Right. And yeah, that's why they're there. And you're whacking and you're whacking stuff and sometimes it's, it's a pretty. Like you, the body and the bike take more than the head. The head might do a little. Then you're probably all right. Unless you like fully whack your helmet against something, you know. So I think, you know, a lot of times just use your own discretion. Look at it. If you see a dent in the helmet, if you see any sort of defect kind of from that fall, that might be a flag to say, hey, I should do something, you know, and we do it like a three year crash replacement. So like, you know, anytime, something like, you know, when stuff goes down, they can go on, they can Submit a warranty claim and a photo and our warranty department's going to review that and get back to the them and you know, do, do like a special replacement on that helmet or maybe they'll see, I don't know, maybe you know, they'll see it and say, you know what, it looks okay. But typically they'll just say hey no, let's get you a new helmet, you know, and here we go.

Andrew: Yeah, so, so you, you know, coming to the end of our main set here and, and I'm definitely going to give you a chance to, to talk about Rudy Project and what separates your, your brand apart and your products apart in general. As a triathlete is looking across the market and, and shopping for helmets. Like is there, are there brands that are just maybe inferior enough that we need a warning or is, is everybody that has certain stickers on the helmet like okay yes, this is safe enough, it's good enough, it's quality enough. Like, like what should we be looking at in the marketplace to deem a certain helmet is good enough versus okay, we should steer clear of, of maybe that one.

Mike: Well, that's a trick question. You know, I don't want to like speak ill on any or anything like that.

Andrew: Whatever you can and can't say I'm putting on a stuff, you know, it's.

Mike: Kind of like any product, right? There's higher end quality things and to, to not right at the end of the day you got to get something on your head and be safe. But I mean I see it a lot when I work. I work with like collegiate athletes that aren't on scholarship and they're just on their own dime and they're part of a club sport and budget is a massive thing and they're just finding helmets off Facebook marketplace for free or 10 bucks or whatever, right. Like, but they're out there racing bikes and racing in competitive situations and that's where I look at and go, you should probably look at one of the, you know, something better like a higher end like not the, you know, $30 helmet from Costco that you know, you know, so I would say to that, I mean anytime you're, you're diving into one of the major players in the helmet category, you know, you're probably going to find and you're going to find they're all going to be safe, they're all going to be good. It's just going to be. And we all have in our lines of products, no matter who the manufacturer is, you know, we kind of have like entry level to best. Right. The rain. And so you just going to find the helmet that works for you and your budget and you know, keep yourself safe, I think, you know.

Andrew: Yeah, so, so if it's one of the big major reputable, everybody's heard of them brands, you're probably in safe hands. If it's something from the big box shop down the and it's an off brand you haven't heard of in the bike space, maybe not. So. So that's super helpful to hear. And you, you agreed to come on the podcast with zero expectation of marketing Rudy Project, you know, zero requests, zero anything. I again, I reached out to you guys and so definitely want to give you a chance to get on your soapbox and tell our athletes why their next helmet should be a Rudy Project helmet. So just what's cool about the brand? What's the vibe? Why, why do you believe so much in a team and your products and why should we give Rudy Project our next helmet? Precious.

Mike: I mean, the brand I love, it's, we're still family owned. It's. We're celebrating 40 years. So we were 40 years ago. So Rudy Project, Rudy is his name, so he's who started the company. Now his two sons run the company and we're based over in Italy. And so everything's made design run out of Italy. So it's really cool that it still has that family feel. We haven't sold off to big conglomerate or something like that. I was a Rudy Project athlete before I ever worked for them. So I was a coach, I was an athlete. I was like you. And I was using the products and building relationships with them long before I actually, you know, got on the payroll, let's say. And because they were products I liked from a style standpoint, from a performance standpoint, from a safety standpoint, all things right. So I just kind of really believed in them. And then we just keep evolving year after year and we've just hit a home run with the wing dream. I mean the new Arrow helmets, I mean, amazing. Our eyewear, you can really tell a difference. And this is, this is something that I.

Andrew: Good eyewear, really good eyewear.

Mike: Yeah. You would learn about is that like our lenses are such high quality and when you take like the $25 stuff you can buy off of a shelf at a run store that's disposable and then you take it against a high quality product like ours, you really start to see the difference in the clarity and then just how long the product lasts, you know, so there's, there's lots of elements to that where like I just truly love the brand, love the product and so working there is a lot of fun. You know, obviously I create tons of partnerships with, you know, teams like TriDot or, you know, Team Zoot or all these, you know, teams throughout, you know, Wind Republic, whatever, across the board. And I love supporting the athletes. So that's a huge, huge thing to me is like I'm one of them and I know how they think, act and I want to show them. I get out and use the products daily and, and interact and, and I always am there to support. So if an athlete or somebody has a question, has a need, I answer every single email, every phone call, every text and I have this. I learned. I, I never knew the rules rule labeled as this, but I listened to another podcast and on there they were talking about the Sundown rule where they make sure before they go to bed each night they give some sort of acknowledgment to every email that comes into their inbox. Even if it's not a proper answer, it's a sure a. Let me get the answer. I'll get back to you. I, I want to let you know I at least got this. And so I've always really tried to practice that and I continue to practice that even when I travel and I'm at events and it's 10 o' clock at night and you're exhausted and you want to get up for a 6am run before you have to be the expo at 9am I still will stay up that extra hour if I need to to make sure I go through and get back to every single person because I believe in taking care of the people because they're the, they're what makes me happy.

Andrew: Yep, I love it. And I can tell you this, you know, every year I think Triathlete magazine always puts out after, after Kona, like the Kona bike count, right? They go out on the pier and count, you know, how many of each brand of bike is out there, how many brands of each wheel is out there. If I were to do a helmet count for the tried out staff that are actively triathletes, the number one helmet brand on our staff's head would be Rudy Project. I can think of off the top of my head, 1, 2, 3, 4. I'm counting the people and it'd be far and away the winner of the staff. I think I'd be the lone one with a POC Cerebel. So yeah, you guys would be Winning that. So. So, Mike, again, thanks for coming on and we'll have you stick on for just a second to answer an audience question on the cool down.

Mike: Sounds good, thanks.

Cooldown:

Andrew: All right, on to the cool down of our show where Mike's going to answer one of your questions. And Mike, I was able to pull a helmet one. We get questions from our viewers in a number of places. Sometimes they come in as voicemail, sometimes they come through Facebook or through an email. And this one came from an athlete named Lisa. She's in South Africa and she asked this. I'm starting to find myself traveling more and more for races. We talked about that a little bit in our warm up question. Each time I pack, I wonder where is the best place to pack my bike helmet for the trip? Mike, is there a best place, are there any places to not pack your helmet for a trip?

Mike: So it depends on the style of helmet. Right. But I think, you know, we have helmet travel cases at Rudy Project, so and we designed a new one that fits the wing dream really well. So that's how I travel. I pack it in that helmet travel case. In that case, I have room to throw my tri kit, some sunglasses. Some other stuff fit in that case too really well. Some transition bags that I own also have nice little spots. So if I'm using like a road arrow helmet that kind of got a little built in protection spot to put the helmet. So then I'll, I'll, I'll pack it in that area. You know, I've been known to, yes. In my checked suitcase, pack it in there, roll it in a bunch of clothes and make sure it's secure in there. I think you just have to look at what style of helmet is like. You know, if it's these big arrow helmets and the ear flaps and the side pieces, those you have to be really a lot more cautious of than your road style helmet. That might fit easier into a backpack or somewhere else. But typically get a helmet travel case and just make it as part of your carry on luggage.

Andrew: Yeah. And that, that's what I do as well. I, I have a case for mine and so it just gets clipped on to my backpack that I'm wearing through the airport. It just stays with me all the way through the airport. But I have always, I loved this question and I pulled it for this episode because I have always wondered, you know, like when I'm packing my bike, I, I could conceivably, amongst some other things put this bike or this, this helmet case inside of my bike case and Just let it go through that. I didn't know if, like the, the plane pressurization and up and down, like, I didn't know if that would damage a helmet, have any pressure impacts on a helmet. So. So that it would be totally safe anywhere, you know, just.

Mike: Yeah, depending on the bike travel. Yeah, depending on the bike travel case you use. And I have packed helmets. I mean, I use bike box Allen, which is a big hard case. Yeah. So. And I have packed a helmet in there. The reason. And a lot of athletes do. Most athletes I know because they're cramming a lot of stuff into that because they're really condensing and figuring out how to take their luggage. And pros do this all the time. Now, the reason why I don't put extra stuff in my bike travel case is because TSA, right, they're going to open that case and they're going to go through. And at my own hometown airport here in Minneapolis, TSA knows me, so I walk in there with him, we do it together. They see me so much, and I've learned from them that if you keep your bike box simple to just the bike and the wheels and not a.

Andrew: Bunch of extra traffic, they're just going to open it and close it.

Mike: Very little will they dig through there and take apart stuff. And they'll keep your bike secure how you pack it. And they'll just open it, look at it, close it, send it on its way. But if you pack all this extra stuff in there, they gotta look through it, then they might have to start going through it. Your bike might not get secured back in the case as well. So that's one of my reasons. Now, if you can do your helmet in the case where it's very seen and not. And maybe up by the handlebars, let's see, there's a slot there. I think that'd be fine. But that's one of my main reasons why I don't put stuff in my bike travel case.

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