Should Triathlon Training Feel Hard? Navigating Effort, Fatigue and Zones

TriDot Podcast Episode 344

Should Triathlon Training Feel Hard Navigating Effort, Fatigue and Zones

Vanessa Ronksley: Hello everyone, and welcome to the TriDot Podcast. I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm, and I am super excited about the episode that we have planned today. So I'm going to paint a little picture for you, here. You wake up, you swing your legs over the side of the bed. You look at your watch, and it tells you that your body readiness score is 1, 1 out of a hundred, and you think, is my watch broken or am I actually dying? So two days later, you go out for a Threshold Run, and you feel like you could keep going on and on forever. Same training, same athlete, completely different human. So what is going on? And more importantly, what do you do about it? Today, we're getting into one of the most asked questions in endurance sport. How should you feel during training? Not power numbers, not pace, not heart rate. We're talking about feelings, the stuff that your data can't actually capture. I've got, here with me, longtime TriDot coach and regular podcast contributor, Ryan Tibball, and we're going to go really deep into this. We're going to talk about development blocks, race prep, sprint distance, all the way through to a full distance, 140.6. So when do you push? When do you back off? And why that line may actually be a lot finer than most people think. Ryan, great to have you back on the show.

Ryan Tibball: Thank you, Vanessa. Always fun to be here. I'm looking forward to talking about all of this, because these are some of the most important things that athletes ask quite frequently. And man, do we have two hours or just one?

Vanessa Ronksley: Just one. But I actually didn't tell the people your background here, because I wanted to have a little bit of fun, because that's – like, my middle name is fun. So what are the three most important things that people need to know about you before we kick this thing off?

Ryan Tibball: First off, I am part of the Coach Success Team, a very strong team here, at TriDot. And what I'm responsible for is actually helping athletes, as well as coaches. One, with the athlete side of things, I get athletes matched up with our highly qualified and professional coaches and also help with educating some of our coaches and guiding them through and helping out with, as a role, as collaboration, as well as with all of them. So those are the big fun things I do at TriDot. As well as, I mean, if there's anything funny or value, people just say I look funny, I guess. I don't know. I don't know what to say. I mean, how about valuable? We can go with that. I do have a pretty extensive background in things, and so physical fitness is my thing. Played soccer for forever, 25 years, and really just been in the sport for 25 plus years of triathlon. So, I think that's valuable.

Vanessa Ronksley: Absolutely. And I know that you're extremely valuable, because you are my very own coach, which I'm very excited about. So really happy that you're here, happy that you're talking with me about this. And we've got lots of good stuff. So let's get to it.

Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world-class coaching with every conversation. Let's get started with today's warm-up.

Vanessa Ronksley: Alrighty, Ryan. Today is all about how you feel in training. The highs, the lows, and everything in between. So I thought today, for our warm-up question, I needed to ask -- every athlete has that one session that is permanently burnt into their memory as the worst they have ever felt mid-workout. It's not related to an injury, just an absolute catastrophic suffer-fest where your body staged a full mutiny. So what’s yours? And where were you?

Ryan Tibball: I think this one's pretty easy, and I've seen it a couple of times pop up on my calendar. And it's probably because, one, 100%, TriDot knew I was ready for it. And what it was, was the 2 x 20 on the bike in Z4. And I thought, I remember a lot of times I don't look at the workouts the day before or anything like that, but what I do is, actually, I had looked at it, and I saw that, and I was like, oh my gosh. So not only did it just hit me mentally, right from the get go, but I had to prepare myself. And when I did get on the bike, I felt ready. It's like, “All right, I'm going to get this done. I'm going to knock this out. Here's my plan. This is how I'm going to attack it.” Let's just say the attack didn't quite go as planned, but it was certainly, it was definitely a suffer. And I preloaded, I fueled, I did the right things. I had the mindset. I was ready to just get after this, had the angry music going on. I had it all. And well, the first interval started off in the lower end. I deliberately set it up lower end of Zone 4. And I was successful in that first one, but I felt it. I could definitely feel it. And I could feel that tiredness, that soreness coming on, and it was starting to really kick. And then I got into the second one, and I was like, all right, 5 minutes, 7 minutes, 10 minutes in, and I get to around 11 or 12. And I remember this. It just, wheels started to fall off. And I broke pedal. I hate doing it, but it happens, and it's normal. It happened. I broke pedal for about 15 seconds, and I got right back to it. And then those breaks started happening a little bit more frequently. And in the end, really, honestly, it was a success. I didn't quit. Gritted it out. And again, both the mental and the physical were really at battle with things through that. Had to tell the legs to shut up and had to tell the brain to shut up a little bit too, but kept fighting through it. 2 x 20. Never want to see you again, but if it happens, it happens.

Vanessa Ronksley: I think it's a full-on honor that you've been gifted a 2 x 20, because it means, like you said, that you're legitimately ready for it. And I don't think that TriDot gives you something that you can't finish. So good for you for gritting it out. And I know, for those of you that are watching on YouTube, Ryan is currently sitting in his pain cave.

Ryan Tibball: Yes, I am.

Vanessa Ronksley: So that's exactly where that session happened. Right behind you.

Ryan Tibball: Yeah, right there.

Vanessa Ronksley: That's awesome. Well, for me, the first thing that came to mind when I thought of this question was the first day that I rode my TT bike. And I was super excited. It had arrived in this beautiful box, it got put together, I went for my bike fit, brought it home, and I was ready to go for my first ride outside on the bike. And I was living in Australia at the time. And I took this, I was on a loop. It was like partially closed to traffic, so there was one lane for bikes, and one lane for slow moving vehicles. And I was on the bike, and it was so windy. It was almost as windy as Little Elm this year.

Ryan Tibball: That was pretty windy.

Vanessa Ronksley: It was very windy. So it was maybe 40k of a headwind, and then it had 60 kilometers an hour of wind gusts. And this was my first time on a TT bike, and my wheels are really deep. And so I was just thinking, what did I get myself into? I can't believe that -- I'm not cut out for this. This is like the worst situation ever. And I was looking at all these people on road bikes, and they weren't struggling as much as I was. And I'm like, I'm not cut out for this. I can't believe I just spent all this money on this bike. And I just, I found a way to push through and to get my session done. It was a long ride, as well. I don't know why I chose to do that on my TT bike for the first time. But it was a couple of hours in that kind of condition, and it was just so hard, and I hated every second of it. But it prepared me. It was like one of those sessions where you know that this is a possibility, that some situation like that could come up in race day. And it did. It just happened to be years later. That was like my full on, really challenging session. But I think I would love to hear what the audience has to say. So find us on social media, and let us know in the comments for today's episode, what was your most challenging training session where you had to grit your teeth to survive, and where was it taking place? Can't wait to hear what y' all have to say.

Announcer: Let's go.

Vanessa Ronksley: We are moving it along here, Ryan, and I think we're going to start here with a big picture. So should how we feel in training fluctuate from day to day? Or from one week to the next? How does that happen in our cycles of training?

Ryan Tibball: Well, ‘should’? I don't know about should, but will it? Yeah. I would say definitely, it will. But there are quite a few factors that influence, and how we feel, and most of which are, actually, controllable, really are. Getting right to it, the execution of your workouts -- are you doing what is prescribed? Are you doing what TriDot has optimized for you in your training? And are you, or are you randomly doing the work? Are you randomly working out? Are you going off script? It is important to know that when TriDot is giving you specific workouts, they are actually built for you, specifically, 100%. And so, TriDot believes that you are given what you can handle at this very moment because of so many of the factors that TriDot is actually factoring in. So again, TriDot is going to prescribe the sessions in the most optimized way. So you adapt to your training and absorb your training, which is so, so important that your body does that appropriately. Assuming you also focus on your recovery, which is another huge controlling factor. I said recovery. So when it comes down to it, are you eating well? Are you eating well to support your training? Are you sleeping well? I said sleeping. This is probably the most critical thing. But are you sleeping well to support your training? Will you definitely feel sore? Yep. You will. There is some degree of soreness to be expected, and that's actually perfectly okay. Just know, when it comes to race day, you're not going to be sore. You're going to feel like, honestly, a million bucks. I always say this, and it's hard to fathom when you're deep into the training, and you're doing all these day to day, and you're hammering away, you're getting things ready. TriDot is going to challenge you. You will have, 100%, you will have a progressive overload. And that term, progressive overload, sounds negative, but it actually isn't. It's actually important, and it's actually a very positive thing, because it should be done in training. You should progressively overload, because applying that progressive overload helps to challenge your body and actually prevent plateaus in training and in performance. So by TriDot increasing demands of your workouts gradually, you stimulate the adaptations that enhance your durability as you continue to train. This is so expected. This question, right off the bat, is so deep in many ways. And knowing that there's a lot of controllable factors, right off the bat. Are you doing the right things? Are you following the program? Are you working through it? Are you listening to your body? Are you taking care of it? Are you recovering right? Because if you do those things correctly, you're going to see that progress, and you're going to see those really phenomenal results on race day.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, I agree with you on that one. A lot of times people might think that they're feeling a certain way after a workout, or even after a block, a training block. And it's, we need to look back and see, hey, were you overdoing it? Like, were you going outside of your prescribed zones? How much were you doing that? Because that is going to definitely impact how you are feeling. And I guess -- I was actually just talking about this with an athlete this week, and they were saying, “I feel very tired all the time.” I was like, “Okay, well, let's look at this. And let's dig through it, and talk about it, and see why this might be the case.” So when does that variability in how you feel become a little bit of a red flag?

Ryan Tibball: Great. Yeah, that's a great question. That variability. I think we get into that, I think we're probably going to talk about it here, is fatigue. And before we get to that, I think how that variability becomes a red flag is, I think when it suddenly just changes over where nothing's feeling right in the end. If you're not feeling good from a day to day perspective. Things are just, it's actually affecting your life outside of your workouts, there's your red flag, right there. And you need to stop, and listen, and look, and see what have you been doing, or not been doing, to support your workouts, support your life, in general, in order to move forward and make that progress.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, I agree with you on that one. I know for myself, I often find I've been in red flag territory more than I'd like to admit, I think. And so when I find that I have things like my mood changes, or I'm irritable, or I'm not sleeping very well -- my quality of sleep is poor, despite the fact that I'm in bed for the amount of time that I'm supposed to be in bed -- those sorts of things are little clues. Sometimes, I don't even feel hungry, and that's part of overdoing it. So I think that those, for me, personally, those are some of my red flags. And I think you just have to look at yourself, as well, and just say, is this my normal or am I outside of my normal? And if you seem to be asking that question and you are consistently like, “I'm outside of normal,” then that might make you feel that, yes, this might be a little bit of a red flag. We need to consult somebody or we need to make some changes, like you said, to the recovery routine. That's so important. So you just threw out this word. I think that it's the F word of the day. Maybe it's the F word of the year, I don't know. But I hear a lot of athletes throwing around the term fatigue. And so I just really want to walk through what we actually mean when we say fatigue, because I honestly think athletes, myself included, we use that word to mean 20 different things. So tell us, Ryan, what is it?

Ryan Tibball: So, let's define that dirty word. I mean, because you're right. As a coach, I hear this word thrown around a lot, very freely, like it's a normal thing. And to be honest, by definition, it's not normal. Okay. So let me define it. First off, fatigue is a state of extreme. Yes, I'll say that again: extreme. But not only extreme, persistent exhaustion and lack of energy, both physically and mentally, and perhaps even emotionally. That, actually, doesn't actually improve with rest, either. So it's unlike simple sleepiness, that's different. But fatigue does cause profound and long-lasting, what they say, weariness that hinders daily activities. So you're going to have issues all over the place. And in fact, from the mental side of things, it can impair your cognitive function and actual motivation in the end. So by definition, that's a lot. And so when people throw that word around, fatigue, I always, “Time out. We need to talk about this, because you're practically cussing at me right now, as a coach,” and I'm like, “I don't want to hear that. So what is wrong? What's happening?” So we need to be very careful, though, and listen to our bodies so we don't actually go into a state of fatigue. It is really hard. It's a really hard line to cross and pretty much, most times, entirely preventable. It really is. I can think of maybe one time in my entire 25-year triathlon career that I was actually fatigued. I remember this, and looking back, it was 100% completely preventable. And I tried to resume training way too fast after a very big race, and I paid for it. I paid for it in the coming weeks, which seemed like, I think it was -- I remember this, it was like 6 weeks. It took me 6 weeks to feel normal again. And that's a really long time. Imagine trying to recover for 6 weeks. And there's nothing, very few things out there, in the world, that you need 6 weeks to recover from. But because I started back way too quickly, way too hard, and I didn't listen to my body, I didn't even listen to the program. I just, like, oh, I'm feeling good. I had this persistent exhaustion, total lack of energy, and I was just mentally drained. I didn't want to work out, but I felt like I needed to work out. And I tried to push that envelope, and it turned and backfired on me. And so when we say that word, fatigue, are you really checking those boxes of extreme, persistent exhaustion, lack of energy, and physically and mentally, and even, perhaps, even emotionally, where you're not --even if you do have a good night's sleep, or two night sleep, and it doesn't improve for the rest. Okay, if you check those boxes, then you probably are fatigued. But outside of that, maybe you're just tired, and maybe you just need to do some other things to help relieve some of those symptoms that aren't as bad as fatigue symptoms.

Vanessa Ronksley: I think that's a really important distinction that you made there, is that there’s a difference between feeling tired and then fatigue. And I think a lot of times athletes might overuse the term fatigue when they're actually just tired. And so I think that what you said here is that what are the things that you can do to try and mitigate these feelings of potential tiredness, like eating, resting, mobility work, recovery. Those sorts of things could impact how tired we feel, or maybe it's allowing us to feel less tired if we actually prioritize those things. And if that doesn't improve over several days, as you said, then it's like, okay, maybe there's something greater here at play. So I think that that's really important, distinction to be made. So we're going to jump into looking at the different training phases and see how these different phases might impact how we are feeling during our sessions. I think this is really, really awesome place for us to start. So one of our favorite training phases here, amongst the TriDot nation, I guess you could call it, is the development phase. And I think this one is the phase that we all love to hate, because you're building. You're doing really tough intervals, you're focusing on building strength, you're looking at power. You may not necessarily have a race in your very near future. and so there's a lot of characteristics of the training that might influence how we're feeling. So what should you feel like in this phase, in this development phase?

Ryan Tibball: Yeah. Oh, I love, love, love development phase. It is a lot of fun. And during this phase of training, you're right, like you said, you don't have an A-race on your calendar, or a B-race on your calendar. And let me differentiate that for everyone out there. An A-race and a B-race, you're in race prep phase for those. So we're in development phase. Now, a C-race -- you're like, wait a minute, there's a C-race, too, that we can put in. Absolutely. It's just a placeholder. That's not going to take you out of development phase. A C-race is just a placeholder. So it just says, hey, I am doing this local 5k, or something like that, for fun, in between, in the middle of my development phase. But again, it doesn't change anything. So in development phase, we say this word, and I use it a lot -- this phrase, really -- is strong before long. And so mentally, you have to say that to yourself. This is strong before long. And so by working in that development phase, you're going to see an increase in intensity opportunities. When I say that, you're going to see that Zone 4 much more frequently. That Zone 5, that VO2 max zone, even that Zone 6, you're going to see it a little bit more frequently, again, optimally in your programming.

Vanessa Ronksley: Right, of course.

Ryan Tibball: So having a great recovery routine during development phase, establishing this now, before you get into race prep phase. Having that great recovery routine regarding mobility, stretching -- strength training, oh my gosh, should be prioritized along with, just as intentional as your swim, bike, and run training. So bear in mind, you also get plenty of active recovery sessions, because TriDot's definitely going to optimize you. It's going to be looking at your loads, your stresses, your residual stresses throughout your training cycles. So when I say residual, it's going to look upwards of 10+ days to see, you know what, there's still some residual stress from all that Zone 5 you did. And it's going to be calculated and quantified into your future training. So that's one thing I love so much about TriDot, it's just going to give you just the right amount. It's going to challenge you in development phase, and you're going to get that load that it's going to be, hey, get ready to grid it out kind of stuff. For sure.

Vanessa Ronksley: You said something so important here, and I'm glad you brought it up. My little brain was just going, the gears were twisting in there. Because previously, when I've been in development phase, I find it very difficult. It's really hard, and I find that injuries pop up, for me. I'm not sure if this is the same for everybody else, but I feel tired. And I'm like, when is this going to end? I want this to end. I love the hard work, but at the same time -- this is what you said that I hope everyone was listening to, and if they didn't, I'm reiterating it here because it's so important -- is that during this phase, it's very easy to let go of your mobility and your attention to your nutrition because your sessions are not as long, and so it doesn't feel like you are putting in that time effort. And so it's like, “Oh, I just had an hour long session today.” But that hour long session was probably really intense. And so the mobility and the attention to the nutrition, and the rest, and the, just taking care of your muscles and your joints, like, that is so important, if not more important, than later on. And so I think that this is a really, very important thing to just bring in front of everyone's mind, is that the development phase is very hard on you, and if you are not supporting it with those things like you mentioned, then you're going to have issues. So I think that's really important. And the other thing that I think is important about putting those things into your schedule, in terms of making sure that you have good mobility, is just making sure that you have the habit, because when you get to that race prep phase, it's going to carry forward, and then you'll be much healthier throughout that entire race prep phase. So thank you so much for bringing that on here. Is DOMS something that is very common in the development phase? And if you are an athlete who experiences DOMS, how do you go about making sure that you can still nail your sessions, but you still have some of the residual muscle soreness?

Ryan Tibball: Yeah. Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness. Got to love DOMS. DOMS is, I feel like he's my best friend, some days. Yeah. I feel, right now, I've got some DOMS from my sessions and my strength sessions, but at the same time, it's a good feeling. It really is. Yeah, I'm sore. Of course I'm sore. But at the same time, I'm also focusing on, yes, my nutrition. Like yesterday, I had a big, nasty run session. 4 x 6, one minute in between. And oh boy, it was good. It was great. I mean, I nailed it. I didn’t get 100, guys, but I did do well. But it was one of those things like, yeah, I'm feeling that. That is a little muscle soreness happening right now, and I'll probably feel that for a couple of days, but it's not stopping me from my easy ride today. That's the great part. I look at my calendar, I was expecting an easy ride. Sure enough, there it was. And I was like, yes. So it was great. And so really, training and doing those recovery sessions, those are active recovery sessions. And I can't emphasize that enough, is do those active recovery sessions. It's an easy ride. Or maybe you might need, maybe there's something on your calendar that says this isn't going to be an easy ride today. Maybe you do need it. It's okay. Dial it back and listen to yourself. That's important, too. But training while sore, not a bad thing. Not a bad thing at all. But there is a point that, again, if you're just, your range of motion is affected dramatically, that can be something you actually need to address before you do any additional exercising. That way you can continue to train and train safely.

Vanessa Ronksley: Okay. This is very good. So you could be in a productive fatigue scenario, where you are recovering, you are eventually going to come back stronger. And if we have excess of that, if that persists for too long, then we might see some performance drops or even just hit that dreaded plateau. So I think what you were saying is that it's okay for us to feel tired, may feel dull going into some sessions, but don't freak out about it from a day to day. Just keep an eye on the trend over the course of a few days or a long week. Did I get that right?

Ryan Tibball: Yeah, you did. I think, again, not every workout is going to be perfect, either. And I want our listeners to really think about that. You’re not looking for perfection, right? You're just trying to do your best. Nor should you expect that perfection. For example, I have jumped in the pool for a swim, hopped on the bike, stepped out the door many times with a thought, “Oh boy, I'm going to be feeling this,” or, “This may not go as well as I thought.” In fact, I felt that way yesterday, and I was like, no, get after it. I got running. I actually did my -- not actually. I always do my mobility beforehand. I did my dynamic mobility, got the legs ready. I was like, hmm, actually feeling better than I thought I was when I was in that static state of just walking around the house. So again, keep in mind, guys, you know, in development, while you're going through, you're being sore – you are training. You're not racing yet, right? And trust me, even on race day, through taper week and through into race day, you're going to feel like a million bucks, like I mentioned earlier. And so having that state of tiredness a little bit is perfectly fine. Again, the warning sign is when, hey, muscles aren't firing, range of motion is affected, you can't do anything. You can't move right. Yeah, things need to be addressed at that point. You need to take care of it.

Vanessa Ronksley: Okay. So we've taken care of all of those things, and we've crushed our development phase, we've gained strength, we've become faster, we're more powerful, and we're ready to take on race season. So we're going to split this into short-course and long-course, because they're different experiences. So starting with sprint and olympic, what should you feel like when you're in a race prep block for that kind of a distance?

Ryan Tibball: It’s definitely intense. Even in that race prep block, it’s intense for short-course racing. I have said this before, and I think many would agree, short-course racing can be just as tough, in its own respect, compared to long-course racing. Short-course is all about that power and speed and being able to maintain that power and speed at much higher intensities in comparison to long-course racing. I mean, you’re racing, in the short-course events, sprints and ollies, in Zone 4, Zone 5, and maybe that occasional Zone 6 that you might need to put the hurt on some other competitor. But you have to prepare yourself in practice, I always say this, in your training sessions and experience that in training. One of my favorite things is if you don’t do it in training, you won’t do it on race day. So again, with that training for the short-course racing, embrace the suck, as some people say. And no, it’s not just only benefiting you physically, but mentally, because this sport is just so, so, so mental. Some say 70, 80% mental. And some days just turn into just a pure grit day. And that’s what it’s about. And you have to go through that, even in short-course racing. That’s why, again, it’s one of the things, like, yeah, this is just as hard as training for a half-Ironman, full Iron, in many respects, because guess what, you’re going to do it on race day. You’re going to hammer, you’re going to drop the hammer, and that’s what I say, light the fire and just keep it burning the whole race. So, yeah, lots of fun.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, they're very intense, that's for sure. And this training block is very similar to the development phase. You're hitting a lot of Zone 4, you've got some Zone 5’s, some Zone 6. And sometimes it feels like it's more a pain tolerance type of thing. How much can you withstand? But that's what racing is, so we better practice it in training. So if your training readiness is 1 on your Garmin for short-course race, do you laugh or do you listen?

Ryan Tibball: Well, I just laughed. You said Garmin. So don't get me wrong, I love my Garmin. Absolutely, my favorite thing, there. But at this current moment, the funny part is my Garmin says I have been unproductive for a month. A month. You know what, I'm hammering my workouts just perfectly fine. So TriDot's giving me just as much as I need right now, and I'm doing great. So I don't listen to my Garmin. There are some things that -- what TriDot does is it quantifies my loads and my stresses appropriately. I made mention to this earlier. It quantifies those loads, and those stresses, and those residual stresses appropriately in all three disciplines. So it's looking at your swim, your bikes, your runs, even your extra workouts if you, I don’t know, you go paddleboarding. If you wear your heart rate strap, it's going to quantify that load. So again, if you're going to go out for those extra little things, go out for hikes or whatever it is, wear a heart rate strap. Let it come to TriDot. It's going to help with monitoring and quantifying loads and stresses appropriately. So, yeah, I don't listen to my Garmin. I usually, generally, laugh at it, and sometimes take the picture and post it on social media just for fun, just because I think it's funny.

Vanessa Ronksley: Right. Okay, good. That's good to hear. I think that a lot of us are very reliant on the feedback that provides, but it's an interesting thing to think about when we also have some quantifiable information coming from the TriDot side, in terms of stress. So we've looked at short-course. It hurts. We're just accepting that it's going to hurt and that might persist for a little while longer. Now, if we're in long-course, that's a little bit of a different animal completely. So talk to me about what the tiredness, and the fatigue, and what you might feel when you're building for a 70.3, or how that might even change when you're going for a full.

Ryan Tibball: Yeah, so as most know, I do love that 70.3 distance. And to me, during race prep, for race prepping itself is, to me, it's a perfect distance to still make some really great gains, both aerobically and anaerobically. This time in training depends on your -- the time in training that you're actually doing is actually going to depend on your fitness, doing your assessments, et cetera, and your race prediction. So it's just getting to that point now where you are gaining even more aerobic capacity with your consistent training. Yes, I said consistent. And that's probably the most key-est word ever in the world -- if that's even, ‘key-est’. Is that a word? I don't know, but it felt good. You really need to be dialed in -- for that 70.3, as you're training, you need to be dialed in on your food. You will need, you will absolutely need to eat more quality foods to replenish those glucose stores through your training days, through your weeks, and getting more carbs. So I think that is one of the key-est – key-est, again, it's in my vocabulary. One of the key things is that athletes commonly neglect that increased need for the recovery, which means food, sleep, mobility, even strength work. Those kinds of things are going to be much more important here. And being able to increase those things that you need to do, and appropriately do, so that you can get to the next day's workout. Now, regarding the 140.6, the full distance, it is definitely along the same lines of the 70.3 adjustments that you need to make, increasing your food intakes, and again, monitoring those -- if you really want to get down to that nitty gritty and get really granular with your carbohydrates, look at your energy expenditures and compare it. Hey, you know what? You just burned 2,000 calories in this workout in this long run you just did, or long bike. Well, guess what? You're going to have to put some fuel and food back into your body so that, one, you can recover from that session, and number two, also be ready for the next day’s session. So it's going to be -- timing is everything when it comes to that, as well. You get out of the pool, get off your bike, finish up your run, don't wait an hour afterwards to start refueling yourself. In my opinion, it needs to be done in the first 15 minutes. And if you're having trouble with that, just set it up and have it ready before you even start working out. So then immediately, you go grab that smoothie, or whatever it was. That way you start replenishing those glucose stores, those carb stores, immediately. So race prepping through these long courses is definitely something that has to be looked at. And again, our coaches are really good at helping with all of that stuff. So as you get into these long course racing, it's just like, it's not just a swim, bike, run. It's the nutrition, it's the recovery. This could be 5 disciplines, I often say, for sure.

Vanessa Ronksley: Oh, I think there's 10 disciplines for a triathlon.

Ryan Tibball: Yeah.

Vanessa Ronksley: But I find this very interesting, because just as you're talking, I'm thinking about the different day to day sessions that make me feel horrible, sometimes during the training session itself, deep into Ironman training. When you get those 8 x 10s of Zone 3 at the end of your session, or 10 x 8s, or whatever it ends up being, that does not feel good. I don't care who you are, but you've put in a long training block, you're on the bike now for like 4, 5, potentially 6+ hours, and you hit that session, that doesn't feel good. No matter how much you fuel during that session, it's hard. And so I think that it's important to know that, yeah, your sessions are going to feel hard. But then something else that you said, that I talk about this with my athletes all the time -- please, after your long sessions, record how you feel, what you ate, what symptoms you have that are different from what you would normally feel on a regular day, because that is going to be a key indication of what we are missing. We're missing something. We're missing -- if it's nutrition, if it's hydration, if it's not getting enough sleep the night before, if it's not having enough carbs the night before. All of those things are really key indicators that something has impacted your session that day. And then I think what's important to note is does that carry forward for 4, 5, 6 days, and how are you feeling 4, 5, 6 days out from a session like that? Because it's not easy to recover from, especially when your other sessions are still piling on top of that. And that residual stress, we can look at that in the platform. We can see what our residual stress is for the past 7 days. And if it's high, then we have to take care of ourselves. So I think that it's okay for us to feel that way during a session, but then the amount of time that we feel, and how we are acting afterwards, physically, emotionally, mentally, all of those things are going to impact all of the things about how we feel. I think it's important to pay note to that. And if we look at high performing athletes, elite athletes, professional athletes, they keep journals. They log everything. They log their food, they log their feelings, they log everything. Because it is, for those athletes, it's their livelihood. And it comes down to those things. When I nailed a session, let me look back 2 weeks to how I felt and what I did exactly. And can I replicate that? And so within the app, there's a spot for us to record notes for ourselves, because it can be a very, very useful tool to putting all those little pieces of the puzzle together, which I think is really important. But let's carry on here. We could talk about this all day long. So I do know for long-course athletes, in particular, because the training volume becomes a little bit higher, the line between ‘this is supposed to be hard’ and ‘I'm breaking myself’ is very thin. It's like razor thin. So how do you coach athletes to know which side of that line that they're on?

Ryan Tibball: Yeah. It can be pretty thin, especially if you're not taking care of yourself from a recovery standpoint. I know I've said this a million times already in this podcast alone, because triathlon is not just about swim, bike, and run. So it is about that recovery. And again, when an athlete is out there and they're -- how do they identify it? How do they know which side they're on? I think it comes down to, they go out for a run, I ask them to do that Zone 4 work, and muscles ain't firing. They're not doing what they're supposed to do. And they say, “Coach, I've eaten. I fueled right. I felt like I fueled right. I did the right things. And Coach, this just was not the day for it.” So now we're starting to toy with that point of ‘I'm breaking myself’. And so this is when, as a coach, I'm like, all right. This is that communication I need. This is what we need to talk about. And so we also need to figure out, why did you get there? Because are you missing something from your previous sessions? And you mentioned this earlier, it's like, hey, Monday's work -- today's Thursday, but on Monday's workout, or Sunday's workout, you had this long run, and it was tough. It was long. It was a lot of time on feet. And right after your run, you decided, I'm just going to go lay down, and I'm not going to eat anything, drink anything. Guess what? That going to play a role further down into the week, and more than you think. And so we have to look at these things. And then, yes, got to listen to our bodies. Things aren't firing right, they're just not working, then something's up, and you got to pull back, maybe take the day off or just focus on recovery, period. And that's probably going to be your best mode of action at that point.

Vanessa Ronksley: Okay, good to know. So looking back at the short-course and the long-course, to summarize the difference between how you might feel, is it fair to say that short-course might hurt more in the moment, and then long-course might linger a little bit longer?

Ryan Tibball: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think it, definitely. I mean, I do love the short-course distance. It scares me in a lot of ways, comparatively. That's why I say I think it's harder sometimes. It really is. And so, yeah, it can definitely hurt a little bit more for a little bit longer from that muscular standpoint. It really does. Because at least in the 140, you're focused primarily on your Zone 2 anyway. So it's typically a lot easier, but you got to go a lot longer, and you got to build that time in saddle, time on feet, to overcome that. Because, again, just because it's Zone 2 doesn't mean you can sustain it forever. You have to work up to those times. And then that's what TriDot will absolutely get you to, based on what your race predictions are. So that's the great thing about it.

Vanessa Ronksley: Okay. And we've come to the point, here, where I'm going to ask the question that we've all been waiting to hear an answer for. Regardless if it's short-course or long-course that's on the calendar, when do you push through and when do you listen?

Ryan Tibball: One, if your body is, you're sore, you're tired, I think those are times that you absolutely can push through. And I think when the point is, when you need to start listening, is things are feeling wrong, feel off. Something's hurting and it's lingering. It's been bothering you for a couple of days, or 2 or 3 days, and it just hasn't gone away. It's not a normal feeling. Something is different between muscles being sore versus a pulled muscle. If you felt something, and I say this a lot, if you felt something immediately during a workout, that's wrong. That's a wrong feeling. You don't want that feeling. If it's something like you had a hard workout, you wake up the next day, and you're like, “Oh my gosh, I'm so stiff, sore.” You're like, “Oh, I just don't think I can do it today.” No, get to your mobility. Try it. Get into that dynamic mobility and get after it again. Because again, you're going to be a little sore and stiff. That's normal. But at the same time, there can be a point that, sometimes it's range of motion just ain't improving with, no matter how much work you're doing. Well, then it's just focus on recovery today. So I wish it was a black and white line that I could draw, but I think I made some really good points about, hey, if it feels wrong, if you felt it immediately, you don't push through that. You stop, you cut it off. If it's a workout and you feel something immediately and it was wrong, your workout's done, and you need to figure out why or what happened, and then address it. And by all means, if it takes talking to your coach, if the coach can help you out, great. If it requires a professional consult, then you go get that. And again, don't go to social media asking, hey, this is what's bothering me on my leg today, or my knee. No. Go to a professional, have them address it. Okay?

Vanessa Ronksley: Okay. So here we have an athlete that's sitting there, right now, or later on today, or whatever, and they're trying to figure out what to do with today's session because maybe they just don't feel right. So give me a simple framework. What do they need to ask themselves? What are the little tick points that they need to know if they're going to proceed or if they're going to abandon ship?

Ryan Tibball: Okay. Yeah. First off, prepare yourself. Do the dynamic work beforehand, before you get going. Try at least optimize your body and get it ready, to get ready for that swim, or bike, or run. And give it a shot. Give it a shot, give it a chance. And I've heard, I think it's Coach Michielle that says, “Give it 7 minutes.” And Coach Michielle said this, and I thought, hey, I like that. A lot of times they're like, okay, 3 minutes in, ugh. 4 minutes in, ugh. 5 minutes in, ugh. 6 minutes in, “Oh, I'm actually feeling a little better.” And suddenly, “Okay, I just passed the 7 minutes. I'm going.” It’s just, give it a shot. And once you're gone, you're gone. Now, if you get -- I don't know if 7 minutes is that magic number, but what it is, is, again, somewhere in that beginning, if you’re starting to feel like, yeah, it's just things feel absolutely wrong, it's time to cut it, be done. Walk back, get off your bike, just focus on the recovery piece again, and try to restart tomorrow.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, I think that's really important. I think a lot of people, when it's a mental issue, is they won't even start. They'll just be in their bed, and they're like, “Yeah, no, I just don't feel like it today. I'm just going to not do it.”

Ryan Tibball: Sticky sheets.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah, sticky sheets. I love that. But I really love the fact, like, just go. Give it a go. Do the warm-up. Even in the TriDot workouts for running, for example, there's a lot of dynamic movement that you can do to prepare yourself for your run. And so give that a go. Let's see what happens when you start with that. I know, I think there was probably one time, one session, where I did the warm-up, and I was out the door running, and I took several steps, and I was like, “No, this is not okay.” And there was a difference. I could feel a difference between this is a normal tiredness, this is a DOMS, and after taking 20 steps, I'm like, “Nope, something's not right here.” And it was different. There's just something different about it being tired versus there's an issue. And so I think that's a really important thing to learn. And it takes a lot of discipline to stop yourself.

Ryan Tibball: That's exactly right. Discipline, right.

Vanessa Ronksley: Yeah. So I think that's something that's really important to note. I love Coach Michielle. I love that she says 7 minutes. Give it a go for 7 minutes. Are bad warm-ups a real thing? Do you abandon ship, or do you just push through if you're not feeling quite ready after about 7 to 10 minutes?

Ryan Tibball: Yeah, I think bad warm-ups are a bad thing -- or a real thing. It makes or sounds appropriate. Bad warm-ups are a bad thing. So I think rather than maybe pushing through because you didn't warm-up enough, maybe today needed that extra few minutes, that 5, 10 minutes even, through a bike session, through a run, whatever it is, even the swim, I don't want to take away from that. But maybe you need that extra warm-up time, and that's okay. Today was an off day for that, but once the engine started going -- I've been on the bike for a two-hour session where I felt like 40 minutes in, my body finally felt right. As in like, “Okay, now, I'm ready to push.” But it wasn't feeling bad. It was just like, ah, maybe I'm off in something. Maybe my hydration's off from the get-go. I got up early, didn't drink enough, didn't fuel enough prior to. Actually, 9 times out of 10, that's what it was. I kept putting more fluids back in, and that solved the problem. So, again, you can look at those things and think about, well, yes, sometimes a bad warm-up -- just continue moving forward if things otherwise feel okay, you can do that. You can try it. And if it doesn't, if it just turns to pot, then you're done. Okay.

[Transition Sound Effect]

Vanessa Ronksley: All right, here we are. It's cool down time, everybody. And we are taking audience questions and having our expert coach answer them for you, for our listeners. So this question that we have today, Ryan, it fits in perfectly with what we've been talking about. Maybe, because of this question, we even created this episode as an entire information session for you. So sometimes when the questions are just so good, it's not easy to answer in a few sentences. So thank you to the athletes out there who are submitting questions, because we really appreciate you, and you never know when your question might turn into an entire podcast. Our question comes from one of our athletes. Sarah asked us, “After an assessment week, when my zones update because I nailed them—” Woohoo! “--the first few weeks feel brutal, and by week 3, I'm completely destroyed, even heading into what's supposed to be a recovery week with another round of assessments. Is that normal? How long does it take to adapt to new zones? And can going too hard early in the training block actually hurt the rest of the training cycle?” That's loaded.

Ryan Tibball: Yeah. Sarah, great question. To answer ‘is that normal’, here's the golden answer: it depends. So congratulations on, again, crushing your assessments, bumping your dots. That is awesome. Always love hearing about that. When you do crush your assessments and bump those dots, especially a significant bump in power, pace, your zones will change dramatically. Sometimes I've seen zones even literally go from, literally jump a whole zone, and you see those drastic improvements, and it's fantastic to see that. Now, when that happens, and how you approach the subsequent weeks of training is going to be critical on how you adapt, and how you overcome, whatever you want to say. But really, how you adapt through those changes. In other words, with large improvements, you have to be disciplined first. Disciplined to not aim for the top end of your new zones. That is going to wreck you. But remember, you just bumped up significantly. Sounds like, Sarah, you crushed it. So the best approach when having new training zones is really to start where you left off in your old zones. And so in other words, aim or target the lower end of your new zones, because more than likely, that is where you left off before that big jump. So if you're on the bike and you happen to ride in ERG mode, let's use this as an example, maybe your old top end power was 200 watts in Zone 4. You crush your assessment. Now, you have a new top end of 220 in Zone 4.

Vanessa Ronksley: In my dreams.

Ryan Tibball: That's what Sarah sounded like she did. So I'm just assuming here. Now, smart move is to aim back at that 200 in that first week of training so you can ease into the new zones. Again, you're not looking for perfection, here. You're really trying to make sure that you train appropriately. So if you were to aim for those top end of the zones, this is where things can get really challenging and extremely difficult. So again, don't be afraid to adjust, and again, aim for the lower end. And in other words, maybe you start off at, again, 200 watts, and then you go to 202, 204, 205. Whatever it is, you're now working, you're still working in your zone, your new zones, but you're actually pushing higher from your old zones now. And so it gives you that opportunity for success, sets you up for success. So now, keep in mind, not only have you shown improvement by crushing your assessments, and your zones are tougher initially. You also need to be intentional about how you recover from these new zones. If you are pushing higher powers, you're higher pacing, whatever it is, you have to focus on that fueling before, during, and the timeliness of your recovery fuel afterwards, along with properly doing your mobility and stretching. Far too often, athletes ignore the recovery or don't prioritize it. And suddenly, you got hit by not just one bus, by 3 buses. So you don't want to feel that way. It's not fun. So can going too hard early in the training block affect you later down the line? Absolutely. Stay intentional with your workouts. Stay vigilant about your recovery. If you go off the rails in your workouts and do more than is prescribed in your training, your stresses will rise, and you won't recover, and this can lead to a multitude of problems, like fatigue, injury, burnout. When it shouldn't, it shouldn't do that. TriDot will train you and prescribe you where you're at. But also listen to your body. If you need an easy day, or a day off, it's 100% okay. Recharge and be ready to crush your next workout with that passion and your ‘why’. Know your ‘why’. Always know your ‘why’, guys. And again, you'll have great training sessions and enjoy your new zones. Okay?

Announcer: Thanks for listening to the TriDot Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on your listening platform of choice. For more opportunities to learn from our coaches, check out our YouTube channel and follow @TriDotTraining on social. Ready to train with us? Head to tridot.com and get started for free. Until next time. Happy training.

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